Give Rapid Clearance diminishing returns

Certainly not every skill.
I think I understood the game pretty well. Also, I don’t mean to make the devs bad, on the contrary, I want to help. Helping also means addressing uncomfortable problems in order to develop further.

PP is a complex game and there can be a few loopholes.

Well, I want to end the conversation with you with this answer.

Council thinks differently. And we managed to convince developers to change it in one or another way. We don’t know final version, but there are some interesting ideas. Except there will be more changes to the game balance. I’m not 100% sure, but I suppose that players won’t need so much power like right now. At least not so quickly.

I hope this doesn’t lead to Acid-gate 2.0. You seem to be self-satisfied with your response? I genuinely hope that any changes are to improve the game rather than change it for the benefit of the desires of a few players.

Don’t forget that the Council contains people like mcarver2000 as well as Yokes (and I personally do my damndest to make sure that everyone’s views are represented, not just my own prejudices) - so ALL perspectives of the player base are covered.

The Council is also just a sounding-board, from whom the devs can gather opinion and make their own decisions from there.

From what I can see, it is a very deliberate effort to make sure that Acid-gate never happens again. No guarantees, of course, but despite the complaints of a minority on these forums, they are deliberately taking things slow and trying to make sure they get it right first time this time around (though I have no doubt there will be bugs :beetle:)

All that said, I deem it one of the best achievements of the Council to date that when the devs came to us and said: “Tell us about Terminator Builds and how they are breaking the game,” we were able to give them chapter and verse, and work with them to (hopefully) keep Squad Skills useful and alpha-strike-able, without ruining the game with First Turn Strikes.

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No mate, it has already broken the game if you’ve figured out how to use it right - seriously.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/ea0fnk/ok_you_win_maybe_the_balance_is_a_little_off_i/

Unless you happen to think that one man armed with a Deceptor should be able to run right across the map and execute every single Panda on the board in 1 turn.

This is what my original OP is trying to stop. I have no objection to Deceptor Guy running up to one, or maybe even 2, Pandas and machine-gunning them in the face - though the awful nerf to RF means that he can stand out in the open and do it without getting gunned down for stupidity, which is ridiculous in a tactical game, but that’s another argument. What I strongly object to is a player being able to cast RC and then clear the map in 1 turn with 1 guy armed with the most AP-expensive gun in the armoury.

So as I say, the open feedback loop has to be closed in some way. The devs want you to be able to alpha-strike with RC - hell, I want to be able to alpha-strike with RC - we just don’t want it to break the game, is all.

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From what I have seen it is far from that. To be true solutions presented by development team don’t fall in the scope of my preferred solutions, but at least they try to eliminated exploits and sometimes give interesting ideas to debate over.

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In TBS, difficult or multiple goals should be eliminated by Teamwork (Tactics), rather than a “super duper-boom skill”.
But I also want to play with Humanly Heroic skills, and this is not magic, but much Energy at the right Place and right Time (“Craftsmanship / Mastery”).

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My favorite Squad:

Two Assault/Heavy, abilities RC, RB, War Cry , never Rally, endgame mounted weapons + Neural Torso

Two Heavy/Assault , abilities RB, War Cry, Boom Blast, never Rally or RC , mounted weapons

Two Sniper/Heavy , abilities War Cry, Inspire, but not RB

And one Technician , deploying/using turrets, healing and recovering body parts. Electric reinforcement never unlocked

This squad is enough for Citadels, special missions, whatever

And for those missions those two soldiers using RC (not every turn) can deal with lot of enemies, even hidden inside buildings

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IMO, that in the video is Rapid Clearance working reasonably well.

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So one skill destroyed the game, and you seriously believe that? Unbelievable that the Councillor supports the bullshit and is already taking care of it, yes we need a restriction. Who should still play your games, after you’ve broken everything?

Why don’t you make all skills like XCOM 2. Move, shoot. Done. This is what you want, a copy.

RC, although it does exactly what it’s supposed to do, returning 2 AP after a kill. Wow, this really is OP. No question about it.

In my opinion it is about synergy with other abilities , like Adrenaline or Rally from other soldiers, feeding more and more AP , killing 10 enemies in one turn with one soldier, is that OP for you or not?

Sorry, 10 kills in one round was never possible, especially with RC.

It is possible, of course it is, if you have 7-8 soldiers and you use RC with Inspire ability actually you are obtaining 1 x Dash (4WP) after 4 kills,

Edit: you don’t even need Inspire, you get lot of WP killing

the rest of the team using Rally , 2 AP x turn per soldier, picture it, do you need a clip to watch it?

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After watching the video, there is an idea
to make the first kill free for AP,
and then + 1AP per kill
In the video, at first it’s 3AP (1AP per dash)
1 kill = -0 = remainder 3
2 kill = 3-2 + 1 = remainder 2
3 kill = 2-2 + 1 = remainder 1AP (again dash)

PS Need to speed up the dash run animation

Not? Then you have maybe no experience with OP RC builds.
I cleared the Shism mission (the last one for Anu) against around 15 Anu enemies with only one Assault / Infiltrator with RC in the first turn and didn’t even touch the Exalted.
Is this not OP for you?

Edit 1:
Veteran difficulty.

Edit 2:
The Build:

  • Assault / Infiltrator
  • Dash, RC, Vanish, Sneak Attack and the on that let you reload for free (can’t remember the name :wink: )
  • Self Defence personal perk for PDW profiency
  • Gorgoneye PDW → 4 x 88 Damage per burst → 352 damage for 1 AP

Go for it, it is OP as hell.

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So? Because something works well, it must be destroyed? For you but not for everyone. The AI can destroy your troops with a single worm, lol and we are not able to kill more than 2 enemies? I see, can’t, only one opponent per round, because you are the pro and everything is OP for you.

Dash costs 1 AP now, 10 kills if they’re not in a circle are not possible. You’re gonna need more WP. Infiltrator need it.

Aaand we’re done here.

First, if you can’t see from that (and what others below are telling you) that the current RC feedback loop is hopelessly broken, nothing I have to say will convince you.

Secondly, if you are going to be so obnoxious about it, I have no time for you.

For the record, I am on record saying that this game has effectively retired XCOM for me because it is so much better and more flexible - but that doesn’t stop me from pointing out to the devs whenever something they have designed isn’t working properly or is OP, which RC most definitely is.

Feel free to rant back at me all you want, as I’m not even going to bother reading your posts from now on.

Good day.

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In the video above, the fighter with the RC at the beginning of the 3AP and after the triple kill is also 3AP …

I will say the obvious, all the “+% damage” skills must either be removed or not exceed 150%.
The less rough math in skills, the more interesting the options you can create or take from life.

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No complaints please but it is possible.
With my shown build I can kill enemies for 1 AP and get 2 AP + 2-3 WP back, that makes the chain possible.
RC + Vanish + Dash, cost 13 WP and 1 AP → 3 AP left → shot 3 times, kill at least 2 enemies → the starting 4 AP are back and also 4-6 WP → next dash → repeat till all enemies are gone. Only bigger enemies stops the chain, but mostly this soldier is not alone …

Edit:

No one wants to destroy it, please stop your on/off speculations. We only want it to be something that is NOT broken as I described.

Edit 2:

I agree, especially the double damage from Sneak Attack without any cost is something over the top.
But I think this is a different problem independent from RC and should also be looked into.

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