So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?

Which is not correct. You can buy it multiple places (g2a.com, kinguin.net, allkeyshop.com to mention a few).
However, you can only get it distributed by Steam, that is correct.

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It tells us nothing other than the Dev/Publisher has chosen only Steam as their delivery method. I prefer getting CDs and installing my games that way, though at least when I go to buy Total War at least I already know where it’s being delivered from and it isn’t being changed on me after the fact. Which is the majority of peoples complaint here.

The other thing being complained about is that Steam isn’t forcing devs/publishers to ONLY use Steam, they’re doing it themselves. This can be seen via the various dual launches on both Steam and GoG. Again, I don’t like that most only release on Steam but that isn’t the fault of Steam. It is partly the fault of Epic that companies only release on EGS as it’s directly paying for that exclusivity (I say partly because their offer would mean nothing if the other side didn’t accept it, thus the other party is also partly to blame).

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Now you have 3, with 2 available 1 year after the first.

https://phoenixpoint.info/epicfaq

Where will I be able to play Phoenix Point on PC and Mac? Will the game ever be released on Steam, GOG.com or through other third-party outlets?

Part of our arrangement with Epic is a one year-exclusivity period on PC and Mac through the Epic Games Store. One year after release, we’ll be able to distribute the game through other third-party stores, such as Steam and GOG.com. All backers up to this point will also STILL receive a Steam or GOG key after the 1 year exclusivity period. The Steam/GOG key will also receive the same 1 year of free DLC which came with the Epic key.

I’ve just submitted my refund.

It’ll be interesting to look back in a decade to see if our actions either way make any difference.

I feel the same about exclusives as I do about loot boxes, games as a service, at launch DLC, always on internet connectivity… But if people keep paying for stuff that will increase profit, it’s going to keep happening.

Money came through within minutes of submitting, so I now have the nice problem of having ÂŁ40 to spend with an indie developer somewhere. :slight_smile:

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You can buy on multiple places, even if some of them are grey market at best, but you need Steam Client to actually play the game. Steam get it’s cut, and if you don’t like or don’t want to support Steam or Valve you can´t legally play the game.

@Gelanin, @Aknazer and others

With this example, I just wanted to tell you that even Steam has an exclusive game contract and Steam it’s not as fair as you say…

Other players do not like it, if they must have a Steam account if they want to play Total War Games…

The same applies to Metro Exodus a Epic exclusive game contract which game you can buy online in different stores.

But if you buy a physical copy you can play some time, but in the long run you need a Steam account or a Epic account, when the bug fixes or new DLC come out…

Therefore I ask you to finish your Crusade or Jihad or whatever you call your Holy war against Julian Gollop and Snapshot games.
From my point of view, Steam and Epic are the same, both of them have exclusive game contract with Dev/Publishers…

This is my last comment on this topic, because you are only looking ti from your point of view… Steam good(angel), Epic bad(devil).

Have a nice life, by…

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As far as i know, the developers generate the keys that are sold “elsewhere”, and while they require steam to use, steam does not make any profit for those keys.

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Lol, do you seriously mean that is a better thing than it being available on a minimum of 2 at launch (the original promise), and potentially every single store (because originally it was not an exclusive, so SG could have sold it on any store they wanted).

Besides, being able to buy at multiple places, even if you are only able to activate it at 1 place, is still better than only being able to buy at 1 place, and activate at 1 place. Besides, the original deal was for it to be buyable at multiple places, and activated/used at 2, Steam & GoG, also a far superior solutions to the current one, of 1 place only for both buying/activating/using.

I see a major difference between exclusivity and some of those examples:

  1. Lootboxes and micro transactions break integrity of the game: the game must be designed in a way as to make player’ experience unsatisfying in order to push sales. It puts into question if game will be enjoyable to play.
  2. at launch DLC - it’s fine to expand the game after initial release but ifs day 1 DLC so why isn’t it in the game?
  3. always on - it may or may not affect the game. It might not allow customers to play the game they bought for no reason whatsoever.

Exclusivity doesn’t breach the integrity of the game, nor harm the game, especially if it’s DRM free. The game will play just the same as it were on steam and gog. And as it is no console exclusivity case, there is no extra purchase fee to access the game. There wouldn’t be anything wrong with the deal, if it wouldn’t go against already made promised.

You also seem to apply logic which often is used against major AAA publishers when they excuse various ways in which they monetise their games:

Frustration with publishers isn’t that they find new ways of making money, it is that this money Isnt invested back into making games. For example here is a video about AcivisionBlizzad using tax havens to avoid paying tax. What I found despicable is the bit which starts about 7:40 - even though they were making more money then ever before their expenses were getting lower.

So Epic deal breaks a promise - it’s bad and puts into question Snapshot integrity regarding their dealings with backers. But it doesn’t hurt the creative integrity of the game itself, and the money is to be invested into the game itself. Desire to secure jobs for employees is also something I can sympathise with. Unless, of course, Jullian (or whoever owns Snapshot) buys himself a Stradivari violin and runs away abandoning the project (sorry but as a musician who tries to figure out how to find money to buy a decent instrument it was the only thing that came to mind that would actually cost enought to make sense:grin:).

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But you don’t have to buy Phoenix Point second time. You already did it, and you have to only download it using Epic launcher. :slight_smile: But well, this is also probably deal breaking, trust crushing, and honour smashing thing. So I won’t try to convince you anymore, because fight with believes is doomed to failure. Have a nice other game for cash from refund. :slight_smile:

“That Steam has a monopol over this game”

REALLY?

https://www.fanatical.com/en/game/total-war-shogun-2-collection


https://2game.com/us/total-war-shogun-2

https://www.gamebillet.com/total-war-shogun-2

“Monopoly” really?

Its kinda amazing this ‘monopoly’ cant seem to keep like every game imaginable on steam off of these sites?

Its almost like this ‘monopoly’ doesnt exist!

I got Metro Exodus on steam becouse preordered it. And no prob.
Im baker (some kind of preorder, but in fact I and thoursands of ppl help this game to be) for Phoenix Point and i was promissed a Steam/Gog Key.
Why Steam/GoG key is a problem for bakers?

So if I buy the game from any of these sites, I don’t have to install Steam to play the game?

'Cos at a quick glance, they are just a third-party selling steam keys, not breaking steam’s “monopoly” at all.

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This is true. I must say though, them having used crowd-funding was because they were making this game as an indie-game, being indie developers. Going to Epic this way, now means they are no longer indie-developers. They made a deal with Epic that Epic paid them for.

Personally I am okay with this though, just saying that I do understand people having a problem with it. Its not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be though.

Offline mode WILL be available at launch. Its DRM free, meaning the only thing you need the EPIC launcher for is to download the game and update it. Being DRM free it wont even demand being updated, so you could install the game and uninstall the Epic launcher, then wait for your GoG / Steam key to be sent to you a year later.

It will be on Steam and GoG as promised though, with free keys to supporters.

EPIC has not even had 6 months yet to do much about the “EPIC Store”. Some people argue that it was used a lot for years because of Fortnite, but it was so far really just a simple launcher. Now they will be focusing on giving it the many much needed features. Steam did not start out having all of these features, they have been around for… is it more than 20 years now? Its at least 15 years anyway.

Seems a bit early to judge Epic for not caring about its users. They made the newest Unreal Tournament free and open source. While I prefer Unity, they are doing a lot for developers using the Unreal Engine. When it comes to game companies not caring about their users, I have to say I do not have Epic near the top of my list. That is reserved for EA, UbiSoft and Bethesda… sadly even Blizzard is moving up on that list. Epic has made Fortnite free to play and based on microtransactions, but that seems to work for that game… its not my type of game anyway.

All I am saying is that I am ready to give them a chance. It wont be my preferred platform in the near future, but I do like finally seeing an alternative to Steam, because EA with Origin, UbiSoft with UPlay and CDPR with GOG never competed directly with Steam. They tried making niche markets to avoid competing directly with Steam. Timed exclusives was a big problem for consoles maybe, and also much needed for them, but its not exactly much of a problem on PCs, where your hardware is not bound to that one store anyway.

Three sites reselling Steam keys only really helps show how true it is. Steam is so big that third party stores even do not try getting around Steam.

That doesn’t change the fact that Snapshot is still and independant indie studio. They aren’t funded by a publisher, they made a deal with a distributing platform to sell their product. Epic has no control over Snapshot aside from exclusivity deal they bought. That’s why Epic is so appealing to indies - a better visibility, guaranteed sale without sellling control over their work. Even so, it’s common for indies to come to agreement with publisher to help release their games.

True, I guess it does not make Epic have influence over the game and its features or can demand a deadline for the release date.

Wow this thread is long and hard to catch up on :flushed: but every gamer and their dog seems to be commenting so maybe I’ll throw my two cents in as well so it can get lost in the diatribe :sweat_smile:

I was quite surprised by the announcement when I first saw it. In all honesty, I had never even heard of Epic Games store before all this chaos. It’s a little disappointing to know I’ll have to wait a year after launch to get a Steam key but it doesn’t change much for me. I’ll give the EGS a go, see how I get on with it. But once that year is up and I receive the original key I was promised it will be promptly uninstalled and forgotten. As @Yokes has already stated, my money went to snapshot, not Epic. So ultimately I don’t have too much of a problem with this from a personal perspective. Let’s face it, the Linux users got screwed big time, much worse than the rest of us. At least we still have an option, even if that option isn’t anybody’s preferred option (I say anybody because I have yet to see a single person sing the praises of EGS).

The only thing that worries me is the potential (note: potential, not confirmed) trend of the company retracting promises made during the initial backing phase of the PP project. So far we have had - no confirmed support for Linux and no steam or GOG key on release day but 1 year later (please add to this list if you know of any others I have missed). It worries me because actions like this can damage the companies reputation. I still have faith that they will produce a good, probably even excellent, game and I still respect Julian and the whole of snapshot games and I really want to see them do well with Phoenix Point and beyond. I hope this decision doesn’t have any negative long term ramifications for them. Even though they have enough confirmed funding now to complete PP as they would like to, I hope they can continue on into the future with more games and possibly even a PP2 at some point (no pressure guys haha :wink:).

I can see why they went for the deal though. It’s hard enough breaking into the gaming industry even with a great idea like PP. If I was in their position, I would’ve been tempted too. Hopefully, it won’t hurt their sales in the long run because it will eventually be on Steam and GOG eventually anyway.

As for exclusivity…yeah well we all know that sucks, regardless what form it takes. At least it isn’t permanent though, that’s definitely worse. Ideally, I would have loved it if they could have been successful without this EGS deal but who’s to say they would have been? Nobody can predict the future with situations like this. They chose guaranteed security for a certain time frame at the risk of spurning some of their backers. So be it. I won’t be judging them for that. As I mentioned previously, I just hope it doesn’t damage them too much in the long run. Only time will tell.

On a more positive note, looking forward to the next build :smile: been ages since I’ve booted up PP so I’m gonna be patient and wait for the next content installment

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Whoever pays for something has control over it, even if it’s not written black and white on a contract. They had enough control to force them to renege on their previous agreement and screw backers.

That said, the “silver lining” in this is that Epic doesn’t really care about phoenix point and probably won’t need to exercise any control. They didn’t buy Phoenix Point, they bought the backer’s list. Now that they have it, they can leave PP in peace.

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