So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?


And some people want a game and also have principles that they feel strongly about. I’ve known vegetarians who LOVE bacon, but they no longer eat it because they have convictions that oppose it.

I could just as easily say it appears that many people just don’t care about anything any more, and would happily give Jeffrey Dahmer money as long as he was making the next Call of Duty. People complain about loot boxes all the time, and yet they keep buying the products that contain them, and even keep buying the boxes themselves, and it never occurs to them that THEY are the reason loot boxes keep showing up.


You dont think the Fortnite and Gears of War fans are just slavering to get their Jaws on a turn based strategy title? I know back in the early 2000s, when I played Unreal Tournament a bit, I kept desperately wishing they’d turn it into a point and click adventure!

Although, MS is now making a tbs game that promises to bring the “fast paced brutal action” of Gear to turn based strategy. Somehow.


Yeah, I was just gonna mention the GoW strategy game. There may be some audience for this on Epic…though maybe not. :confused:


I read somewhere in the Reddit AMA that by that point 3% of backers had requested refunds. 3%…

This remindes me when I worked in insurance companies, and angry customers would yell to cancel all their services, tell all their friends and family to cancel as well, retaliate to spread the word in social media and such. In the end, their yelling effort was for nothing, as they were, for better or worse, just a grain of sand in the beach.

I do believe the Epic move will alienate only a very small fraction of backers, and the money will be well spent in the game. And in the end of the day, I only care about getting the final game, as I feel it will become one of my all time favorites.

It takes a whole lot of shittiness, constant, thorough, always fresh spreading shittiness, to sink a company. If that wasn’t the case, EA would be lying in the gutters a long time ago.

As a side note, I saw things being written about Phoenix Point being a ponzi scheme, and even people trying to relate this all ordeal to, believe it or not, chinese labour camps and organ harvesting (because, you know, 10cent is from China or whatever). This is… so… ridiculous! And it takes away attention from the legitimate feelings of some backers who feel the deal is not being trusted.


The final part is absolutely ridiculous. However, EA survives because it is massive and it produces some immensely popular games, many of which happen to be exceptionally big with people who impulse spend like mad and aren’t really concerned or bothered by any practices that may or may not affect them on the whole.

Snapshot does not have anything like that sort of cushion. They have little pedigree as a company, with one remake of a retro game and an upcoming new IP based on both old and new incarnations of X Com. Half their fan base grew up with BBSes, Muds and Shareware. Strategy gamers in general tend to be older dudes who have their particulars they get uppity about and think twice about who they spend their money with.

It takes a lot to sink a company like EA. It does not take too much to sink a studio with only one, untested Original IP to its name. Even then, we’ve seen Interplay, Take Two, Telltale, and countless others.

Heck, just see how many names you recognize here:


Exactly. There are some valid reasons to be concerned with what happened. However, a potential discussion is getting chocked by a sea of absolute nonsense.


WOW, this went sideways over night!

I totally get those that are unhappy. Reading above, the 3 legitimate gripes are…

  • It is not on steam/GOG as promised
  • Snapshot changed their minds without informing the backers first
  • It is with Epic who don’t give a shit

Hell, I agree with those 3 main issues.

Comparisons to Hitler, a ponzi scheme, Gallop and snapshot are the most evil corporation on earth… WAY too far guys. At the end of the day it is a game. If this change is enough to make people drop it before even seeing the end product, well I guess so be it. If they were refusing your money back I would have more of an issue with it.

Don’t get so worked up by the small things in life guys. You will live longer.


Several people have gone too far, and if that was the content being spewed on the Discord I can see why UV would call someone a “toxic cock-waffle” like he did.

But I’m still going to do a charge back this weekend unless they further backtrack and at least let us backers choose Steam/GoG like originally promised when we paid.


I can understand WANTING to call someone that. I cannot fathom someone who works in community relations ever actually DOING it though.


Sometimes you just have to tell the emperor that he’s wearing no clothes.


When I first saw this change to the Epic store, I straight away wanted a refund. However not wanting to be too rash I thought I’d wait a day to see if it was just a vehement dislike of ‘exclusivity’ based stores. End result is not going to refund now.

Here’s what are my thoughts:

  1. Steam/GoG key provided one year later
  2. No intention of ever purchasing anything off of the Epic store, so just means Epic themselves are providing infrastructure/support for the first year at zero cost to myself
  3. Post the first year, use the Steam/GoG key and delete Epic Store software from my system
  4. Epic contribute further developments dollars to improve product for the first year
  5. 3 DLC and updates for free for first year. Not clear on what they might be, but if that’s the roadmap for the first year anyway, I’m not missing out on anything as this is at Snapshot’s expense
  6. Post first year any further expansions / DLCs will be purchased elsewhere

In short Epic/Snapshot is footing the bill which I’m benefiting from without any money being spent by myself. Once available on Steam/GoG and key provided, Epic Store is deleted.

Whilst inconvenient to have to use another Launcher it is not the end of the world, as the time potentially lost to boot-up / use it is not considerably high.


I guess it’s not entirely proffesional compared to what we see from other CM’s but who makes the rules?
Personally i’m fine with people being called out on their bullshit. But for a CM it might be a good idea to be a bit more subtle when calling out bullshit because people are bound to be offended on behalf of someone else. Especially when you have a horde of users trying to make your life a living hell.

The fact this was so out of the ordinary and unexpected made it all the more hilarious though.


I am a little over reading all the rage but with a few of the attacks getting very personal. I could understand the reaction. Some people are forgetting these guys that are answering back, are just humans too.

For all we know they might disagree with the decision too but are the ones that have to deal with the fall out.


That is a good point.

Maximus as well. While UV has a tendency towards snark sometimes, he’s usually much more subtle with it.


Amen, brother.


They have probably worked it out that they can easily ride the financial backlash, but I don’t think they took on board the reputation damage that this action has caused.
Julian and Snapshot use to have my respect, but boy, has that gone out of the window. Gamers lives are long, and they don’t forget when they have been s**t on.


First dropping the promised support for Linux, I could live with that hoping that it would be eventually playable via Wine/Proton. Now exclusivity to the Epic Store. This is a breach of agreement from Snapshot. Refund claimed. Sad since what I was able to see from the early Linux builds this would have been a game I would enjoyed.



As I think it probably helps them to make a better and more polished game, due to the upfront cash from epic. But the infamy they earned and the loss of a long term player base will just hurt them and possible sequels in the long run! They say, you only release a game once, if you screw that, you probably lost the future. Good by for my hopes of a worthy successor of the originals.

Going back and play the total conversion of the original, X Piratez.


The very point of buying exclusives like PP is to bring new users to Epic Store, same as with free giveaways. Epic has been bringing some really nice selections of games to their platform, too bad they they hold them hostage, rather than making it the best place to buy them.


Did they take a major reputation hit, though? It might seem like backers are in the uproar when looking at the forum but how many there really are? This current thread is by far the longest, and it has only a bit over 300 posts. Even if every post were made by a seperate person, that still amounts to only 3% of original FIG backers. We can assume there is a not-vocal group which would still get refunds and abandon the projects, and that would agree with AMA that about 3% of backer requested refunds - the full number might be something above a 1000, but will it really matter to majority of customers if the game turns out alright?