A different perspective on the switch to Epic games

#1

I just wanted to give a different perspective on Snapshot announcing that PP will be an Epic Games exclusive.

Prior to backing PP I was a backer of the Chaos Reborn Kickstarter. Unlike PP, CR only just scraped its funding goal, but development went ahead, and those of us who were part of the community by and large loved being involved in the testing and development of the early builds of the game. Sadly whilst CR was developed and developed well for where it got to, it suffered from some ambitious goals and fell short of achieving everything that it set out to do. CR was released on steam without being feature complete, and I’ve always felt that it suffered as a result. While it still posted an 85% Metacritic score, it didn’t receive a great deal of publicity and it also got lost amongst the number of other games that were being released on steam at the same time (I still remember the release week and all round disappointment the distinct lack of prominence on the steam homepage).

Snapshot eventually completed all features, though I’d argue to no where near the extent that they or we as a community were originally hoping for. They then had to stop development in order to focus on PP.

Do I like the thought of exclusive releases on the Epic Games Store? Hell no, I vehemently hate the idea of exclusivity. But if it’s a choice between an EGS exclusive and PP being a 2nd Snapshot game that doesn’t live up to its ambition and promise I know which I’ll take. Seeing CR development be cut short was heart wrenching, this isn’t particularly pleasant news to hear, but from some of the reactions you’d think that they’d announce that they were murdering kittens. A switch in launcher is nothing in comparison to hearing that development of a game that you care about isn’t able to continue.

As for loss of trust in Snapshot’s next project, well the way I’m seeing things is that if anything they’ve learnt from what happened with CR, and gained a bit more business nous. I hope that PP does well, gets prominence and publicity from being on Epic and that we all end up with a great game to play that truly rivals the mess of the modern Xcoms. I don’t and won’t support Epic in any way, they won’t get a penny from me if I can help it. But at the end of the day game development is a business, Snapshot have got a product to produce, and they’ve got employees to think about. For me Snapshot have been more than ethical in offering free DLC or refunds to anyone who is unhappy with the switch to Epic. I’m unhappy with the switch to Epic, but I can’t complain at all about how or why Snapshot are switching, and I hope that in the future that they’d now be in a stronger position to develop PP2, CR2, or whatever else they choose to. (Rebelstar please).

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Left Reddit because of the toxic comments
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#2

I didn`t backed CR back then (got it way after the release), but your text translates well how I feel about this whole Epic situation.

I think people is overreacting. This is more evident considering that backers will still get a Steam or GOG key (with al the DLC released) after the 1 year exclusivity with epic ends.

All backers up to this point will also STILL receive a Steam or GOG key after the 1 year exclusivity period. The Steam/GOG key will also receive the same 1 year of free DLC which came with the Epic key.
https://phoenixpoint.info/epicfaq

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#3

The game was delayed and delayed but no one had an issue with that because it would eventually release and be playable on Steam or GoG.

Now take into consideration the release on Epic plus add one year before it is playable on Steam or GoG then ask yourself whether free dlc in an incentive to continue to wait depending on the actual release date. The answer is simply no.

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#4

Is that really simple? Did you ever tried to run your own business while taking risk of loosing investment and your work? But let’s leave it. Question is for you as a customer, what would you choose:

  • not fully developed game without additional content on Steam
    or
  • full game with proper support, but on Epic first, then on Steam
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#5

Are you saying that the game Snapshot promised to released on Steam and GoG would be unfinished when the delays to game were justified by the developer wanting to release a quality product.

Or are you saying Snapshot never intended to release a fully developed game on Steam or GoG.

Proper support? lol from an incomplete broken and featureless Store provided by Epic.

Are you ignoring the fact that Phoenix Point rose from the ashes due to Backer and Pre-order funding to the tune of 2.5 million usd and that Phoenix Point would not exist if not for that funding.

I am assuming you work for Snapshot as you are dancing around the PR storm Snapshot created by actually saying very little.

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#6

Did you read the first post in this thread? Or do I have to quote it for you? Or maybe I should rewrite it more comprehensibly which probably I’m not good at?

I’m not working for them, but I would love to be part of quality assurance team. :smiley: I’m “dancing” because I like to argue with stupid arguments and hate. I’m also backing this game and I want it to succeed. That is all. And this is the only place where I follow Phoenix Point so actively - well, automatic notifications from forum help me with it.

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#7

As you have failed to argue against them then they cannot be stupid.

As to hate I also backed the game and I was betrayed, this is not hate this is disgust a very clear definition of how I feel.

You were part of the “quality assurance team” due to backer builds and providing feedback.

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#8

Lol so the backers are paid for the testing they did? Btw Backers Build is just for presentation purposes not for the bug hunting. Snapshot Games has its own QA team.

I have failed? I just understand their move. It is shady but not so important in my eyes. I definitely don’t feel betrayed or lied to. Why Steam is so damn important? Is Epic Launcher really so evil? Are you serious? And definitely Snapshot wasn’t doing any scam or anything like that. Grow up man.

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#9

I played the backer builds, I provided feedback, did I need to paid to do that? No. Was any backer paid no. What was the other purpose of the backer builds? to prove that game development was progressing and because it was one of the promises made by Snapshot.

Have you heard of player choice? a strange concept I know but what essentially that means is that you yes you get to choose which launchers and storefronts are installed on your PC, but also which games and programs are also installed but maybe your dad does not care what you install on his PC.

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#10

He doesn’t. Unless after 12 years in the afterlife he decided to look down at his old son what he is installing on his PC. :stuck_out_tongue: Don’t tell me about choice, because you have many choices here, maybe not all are ok for you, but then that is not my concern.

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#11

You made it your concern. Bye.

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#12

Apparently you don’t, because anyone who chooses to react differently to this situation than you is someone that you then call an employee of the company.

I’m not happy with the switch to Epic, I’m really not. But I think you’re going to ridiculous lengths in venting your spleen here. Snapshot are offering the option of refunding the game to anyone who is that unhappy with the switch to Epic, if it bothers you that much then take them up on it, they’re being perfectly reasonable in that regard.

For me, I’ve questioned why I chose to back Snapshot in the first place, and then answer is that I wanted to see them being successful as a company in producing TBS games. With this Epic exclusivity they’re now hopefully being successful, I feel that it’s hardly fair to then lodge complaints to the extent that someone people are because they’re not being successful in way that you would like them to be.

It’s controlling, and in some cases it’s bordering on obsessive. At the end of the day we might be Snapshot’s backers, but we’re not their keepers.

Wife: “Hey hon I got that new job”
Husband: “You did what?!?!?!?”

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#13

It is a shady move and it’s not particularly about Steam/GoG but it’s about releasing a game for a period of time on an inferior and untrustworthy launcher despite clearly stating that they intended to release it on different stores.

But nonetheless I’m a hypocrite.
I immediately requested a refund and after a couple of days my initial massive rage toned down because I now have a clearer picture and I shifted my opinion towards “wait and see!”, meaning I won’t refund.

This youtube video in particular convinced me to stick around and just ignore the EGS for a year.

Am I happy with going against my principles? No, definitely not. I just admit that I’m a massive X-COM fan unable to withstand the joy I’ll probably have playing a game that reminds me of the one I played nearly 25 years ago. It’s the same reason I preordered Warcraft 3 Reforged, Mechwarrior 5, Battletech and other games: Nostalgia.

Do I understand why they did this? Yes, I do now. Having financial stability for at least a year trumps beeing a bunch of cockwaffles and betraying their most loyal customers, the hardcore fans.
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t like this at all but I totally get why they did it.
This move fills their Money Bin and uncle McGollop can now hire more personnel or lead the company without having the sword of Damocles (bankruptcy) dangling over his head.

I am still not fine with it though. This was an All-in move burning bridges for all of SG’s future games and only time will tell if it was a a good one or the beginning of the end.

The outcry is justified. The rage and hate about exclusive deals is justified.
If there would not be the steam/gog key offer I probably wouldn’t think twice about refunding.

I will have to live with my decision to stick around and I expect that others are not as spineless as I am.

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#14

You know what? I was also sad because of SG decision, but after all this fight in the comments, now I am happy for this switch. At least there will be less population of Millennials on this forum demanding everything they want and accusing anyone of anything that is not in their conduct of morality.

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#15

Player choice - You can make your choice as I did mine which also includes posting on this forum regarding the situation from my viewpoint.

I noticed you dismissed the previous poster telling me to grow up, was that by choice?

They have to had offer refunds otherwise SCAM would be the word of the day.

Keepers? Well we kept them in development so we were definitely their keepers for the length of time we kept the project going until they threw us on the trash heap in favour of selling their soul to the devil.

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#16

You assume everyone posting is a millennial. Head back in time as I have watched the game industry develop into the mess it is today.

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#17

This is exactly why taking the Epic deal was not as easy a choice as many people seem to think. We knew people would be upset, we knew there would be refunds, we knew people would feel angry and betrayed. We didn’t want that - of course not. What company does?

We had to carefully weigh just how much we would upset our backers against the risks of bankruptcy and layoffs.

Certainly, our reputation as a studio has taken a hit - but the reputation of the studio becomes irrelevant if the studio has to close its doors.

The launch on the Epic Games Store doesn’t have any negative effect on the game itself. It gives us more time and money to add new content and continue to improve and make it better. It allows us to run the studio for several more years and produce content packs and expansions, even other games based on the PP universe.

We really do understand the hurt and upset, but we’re still confident that the quality of the finished game and the ongoing support it receives will speak for itself.

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#18

I made my decision based upon the betrayal, I refunded and will not purchase the game in the future.

The betrayal for me comes from my willingness to wait upon a quality game been released no matter the delays and now I am obligated to either install the Epic Game Store or wait a year from release to play on Steam. Installing Epic is not a choice for me as I will not support Epic as a company.

I may have been harsh with some of my comments but I hope that they are seen as been constructive from the viewpoint of someone who feels betrayed.

I do wish you success with the game despite how I feel but I have moved on and I hope you can understand why I and others have chosen to do so.

Thank you and good luck.

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#19

You can certainly post on the forum and express your view points, that is the purpose of a forum. But please consider that not everyone else has the same viewpoint as you, and that having a different viewpoint doesn’t make those other people employees of the company.

For the record, I don’t support name calling in any form.

My suggestion to you, and I mean this genuinely and wholeheartedly, is to take the money that you’ve been refunded and invest it somewhere else (That’s what I was considered if I’d decided to refund), I think you’ll feel a lot more positive about doing something positive with the funds that you’ve had refunded.

Regards the forum, stay or leave it’s your choice, but please don’t call out other backers for choosing the support the game. We still care about PP, as you once did and hopefully will do about something else in the future.

Thank you for your mature response (above)

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#20

The discussion regarding the move to Epic Games is necessary for Snapshot as a company to take on board the feelings of all who backed or pre-ordered and why they chose to refund or remain. Surely all viewpoints are valid in this scenario unless you believe they are not.

As to name calling none was used. Suggesting or asking if someone may be an employee is not name calling, fanboy etc is.

As to your suggestion with regard to my refund I suggest you focus on your own spending and concern yourself less with what others do.

As to the sarcasm attached at the end (mature response) hardly a mature ending to a post is it?

All my posts were mature responses to the situation your interpretation of them was not.

Finally you have taken the posts I have made personally when all viewpoints regarding Epic are valid (UnstableVoltage liked my post above) and did not take offence at anything said then maybe just maybe consider that before tagging someone to force your viewpoint on them.

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