So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?


False. My Fig backer Build states I get my choice of Steam or GoG key. That is very much buying the product. My wife and I did a backer of something called the Mifold which very much came with the product. A coworker was a backer of a special wedding ring and it very much came with him getting a set of rings.

So don’t try to tell me that backing something doesn’t come with a product. It doesn’t have to come with a product (Fig shares or how PP allowed you to literally donate money to the project) but to say that people aren’t buying a product by backing is very much a lie in most situations.


But product not specified to the last “dot”. Really selling platform is such a milestone which can’t be changed? :slight_smile:

Don’t get me wrong. I understand that someone can be upset just the way I am. But throwing shit at developers which actually are making something interesting compared to other studios is a little bit over exaggerated for me.


Another issue is that they are literally breaking faith and their word with their customers who backed from the beginning like me. It was going to be released on GoG and Steam…but they chose to tell those folks sorry if you want it there now you’ll have to wait a year more than you will have already waited at release. The crowd funding supporters who backed this are getting a big middle finger.


Clearly it “can” be changed. “Should be” is another story. I didn’t like them dropping Linux support after offering it. I find this to be even worse than that, and not simply because it affects me. Dropping Linux was because of difference in coding. This change isn’t about coding problems and as such they could have still honored their prior sales even if future ones were bound by the exclusivity with Epic.

Edit:. Did you edit in the second paragraph or did I just miss it? Regardless, the “throwing shit” is because of how this all went down. People feel betrayed by this. Likewise clearly the only way we can get through to the devs (these or others who consider doing this in the future) is with our wallets. Our words mean nothing if we don’t follow it up with action.


You don’t buy the product, because the product doesn’t exist. You buy the pitch and sign up to receive what will come out, when it comes out, if it comes out.

Not delivering on the promise is a failure on developers part. Locking PP behind Epic for the first year I see as a failure on Snapshot’s part to delivered promised product, just as cutting features would be. It will influence me backing their potential future project, but it is not scam or false advertiaing, because crowdfunding description and promise is nothing more then an initial pitch, a vision of what they want to do. It seems that they choose to downgrade part of that vision, in favour of additional funding. Whenever it was a wise decision I am in no position to say. As a funder you have now an option to withdraw if the project isn’t anymore something you believe in funding. That is all.

I backed couple different projects and it is certainly the most disappointing change I have experienced so far (aside from Mandate, which might never see the light of day) but not one which hurts the promised product itself. Which is good in itself.


Yes I was editing post. Ok your opinion is fine for me. At least you are using clear arguments.


Epic is an awful pick. Dunno what the deal is but as far as I’m concerned that awful thing needs to fade away and I’m not gonna help keep them going.


I see they have resorted to removing posts too now in damage control if the posts contain uncomfortable truths.

So be it. The little integrity the company had left evaporates faster than a snowball in hell.

using people as interest free loans and then trying to silence people afterwards is really not something I want to support in the future with any money. I guess long term planning is an alien concept.


Yes, it wasn’t a pre-order, but I don’t think that invallidate my point that we could have had the option that the people that pre-ordered Metro. Backers would still receive the game in the platform that they choose when they fund the project (and I received some extras for my choosen platform, like chaos reborn).

And while things can change during the development, what it’s happening here is more a new partner that is asking for the temporaly removal of some competitors in exchange for extra funding for the studio (this is a strong claim on my part, but for me it what it looks like).

Even in the post where Julian is talking about this deal there is this point:

Where it looks like some features that are needed for the game are not even in place in the shop (but I don’t doubt that Epic can do it in time)

Sorry, I’m in a bit of a hurry, so this maybe sound a bit incomplete, I will check it again later.


Or maybe they remove false accusations. :wink: Just to not need to deal with them and comment them every time. Or maybe you are right. Who knows.


There’s a proper way and an improper way to post ones displeasure. Clearly I’m unhappy and will request a refund once I can. Other people are also unhappy. The difference is in how we voice that displeasure.


I backed this off the goodwill I’ve had for Gollop since I was a kid. From the first description of the Epic store, it sounded like a big old screw job to me - no user reviews, no offline play, no cloud saves, no forums. It just serves to make the publishing end as opaque as possible and make it more difficult for people to determine what’s worth their money. Not to mention Epic’s own “Daybreak” level of handling Fortnite.

That said, I’m not sure yet if I’ll be refunding. I am positive though that I won’t be backing or pre-ordering Snapshot’s next game. Hell, I abandoned NCSoft permanently when they ditched City of Heroes. Never touched a single thing they’ve done after it.

Snapshot better hope PP has a really solid release and that it really blows it out of the park for its early lifetime, because with moves like this, they’re not going to get a second chance.


How do you do the quote thing on this forum please?


Like this.


Select desired text and tap “Quote” next to it.


I am not disagreeing with you that it would be nice/fair/welcome. What I am putting to question is, if it is possible at all.

To honour backers original platform preference Snapshot would need be permitted to come to some kind of agreement with steam/gog.

My guess is that Epics goal is to bring new users to their store to gain new, potential customer. My guess is that bringing PP backers to Epic is one of the benefits of the deal, on top of exclusively sell PP for a duration of a year.

If such deal as you suggest were to be impimented, it probably should have been negotiated before signing exclusivity deal.


Speaking as someone who’s used Epic Games’ launcher before, with a paid key for a game (much like it seems I’ll be getting with this), I don’t see the issue, here. I’ve personally never had a problem with the launcher, or the company. But then, I haven’t used it as long as others likely have. If it plays the game, that’s really all that matters to me. I would prefer Steam’s launcher for familiarity’s sake, of course, and also to have access to my Steam friends’ list, plus the Workshop.

Still, if this’ll be good for the ones producing the game, then I don’t have a problem receiving the game via Epic, as long as I get a game to play. I’ve sunk $75 into pre-ordering and backing it, and don’t intend to stop now.


It is a question of broken promises and anti-consumer business practices. EPIC isn’t trying to beat Steam by offering a better product. They are taking games hostage to bring people onboard. Also understand something, EPIC is not only fighting Steam. They are fighting other key sellers as well. EPIC is restricting consumer choice.


A lot of folks had a major problem with being hacked through an ancient exploit that no one caught from things related to UT2k4.

Even though it should be in place by PP launch, it doesn’t support cloud saves.
You can’t play offline.
It doesn’t have user reviews or discussions, which means devs don’t have to deal with bombing or harassment there, but also makes it harder for gamers to get info about the game.
There’s some math showing that the monetary difference isn’t really all that great. Epic takes 6% vs Steam’s 30%, but they also use that to lower sale price (except in EU, where you’ll pay full price). On a 60$ game, that means devs in the US (where Epic price will be $50) will see $2 more per sale (which will add up to a lot, but is less than the 6/30 difference sounds like). In EU, where the steam and epic price are the same, devs will see a lot more of it.
Exclusivity deals are a Blight upon gaming. In this case, it smacks of market manipulation and attempted monopoly building. While decisions like keeping RDR, Until Dawn, and the Last of Us off of PC are up to the makers, it still sucks for PC gaming. Exclusivity never benefits gamers, even in the cases where it doesn’t specifically harm them.

Personally, Epic had a runaway success with Fortnite, obtained by screwing over the folks who bought it in its original form (a survival game, not a BR… much like Sony/Daybreak pulled with h1z1), and are trying to capitalize on it by ramming another game collection down our throats, the same exact thing that Valve did when they hit big and then came out with Steam. The big difference being, Steam filled a niche thst wasn’t being well served at the time, where as Epic is just pulling an also-ran that they will be perfectly happy with even if it crashes and burns, because the exclusivity will guarantee they make enough money to be worthwhile. Valve is and was always invested in making sure Steam was a success and supported permanently. Epic has no such need. Much like Fortnite itself, it’s built on a shaky foundation that WILL eventually be largely abandoned by gamers. By then, Epic will have tons of cash, and others will be encouraged to follow in their footsteps.

Maybe this WILL be for the best for Phoenix Point, but I can’t help but think this move turns Snapshot into a one and done. I don’t think they’ll ever see as much support from the community as they had launching PP, even if it does turn out to be a hit. And if it’s not, this decision will follow them around like an albatross for everything they do afterwards. I’d really rather not see Gollop wind up in the same thoughtspace as Molyneux in a few years.


Phoenix Point coming to the Epic Store is not the problem. The exclusivity is.

I very dislike the Epic Store, and I can’t believe I was imposed unilaterally a 1-year delay before I can play it, especially since at first it was destined to be release on GoG and Steam. This is a very bad move, I won’t forget it. It pains me because I was looking for the game, but under these conditions I had to ask for a refund :frowning: