I've tried.. I really have but now its time to ask for a refund

[djoles77]

@MichaelIgnotus

A much more relevant analogue to what’s going on here is the Algonquin in the 1700s, but then you didn’t want to hear that when I pointed you to it in a different thread, so I’m not going to waste my time again here.

I still can’t find where you addressed to me but I have found this:

@MichaelIgnotus

NATIVE CANADIANS: During the 1600s, the Algonquin, the Iroquois and the Mohawk found their territory was being occupied by small groups of white-skinned aliens with mega-weapons that were light years ahead of their own, and carrying a deadly virus than nearly wiped the natives out. Instead of uniting against this threat, they chose to ally with different parts of it, so that they could use these mega-weapons to destroy each other. Most notably, the Algonquin fortress of Kitcisìpirinik, impregnible until the arrival of gunpowder, was attacked and almost destroyed by both the Mohawk and the Iroquois, and the Algonquin were eventually driven from their lands. Sound familiar?

THE HIGHLAND SCOTS: Various Highland Clans spent most of their history allying with various British forces so that they could get one over on their rivals. The most notorious (but not the only) instance was the infamous Glencoe Massacre of 1692, in which the Campbells working for the English massacred Clan MacDonald in an inverse version of the Red Wedding (the MacDonalds were hosting them at the time).

THE ROMAN INVASION OF BRITAIN: King Cogidubnus and Queen Cartimandua did very nicely out of siding with the Romans against their native rivals thank you very much. Cogidubnus got a lovely new palace at Fishbourne, and Cartimandua’s Brigantes gained control of northern Britain. And I’ll bet you didn’t know that the Iceni of Boudicca originally allied with the Romans to kick out the Catuvellauni and the Trinovantes from East Anglia. They took out preferential loans from Roman bankers, minted Roman-style coins and started building Roman-style villas. They only revolted after the Roman equivalent of the sub-prime scandal caused the likes of Seneca to call in their loans, and an over-zealous Roman tax collector sparked the revolt when, instead of simply collecting the half-share of his kingdom left to Rome by Boudicca’s husband Prasutagus and leaving her with the rest, he kicked her out on the streets and let his men rape her daughters. If that hadn’t happened, the Iceni would happily have kept using the Romans to beat the Trinovantes down instead of uniting with them against the Romans.

In all three situations there were no threat of imminent extinction. People allied with invaders hoping that they will benefit from that. Romans were famous about sweet promises and assimilation of allied tribes. Here in the game analog for that would be that Anu started to attack other fractions because they were convinced that Yoggothian Entity will be their god and would spare them if they honor his agenda.

[MichaelIgnotus]

Let’s agree to disagree on this one, eh?
I hate it when a thread gets derailed by 2 people getting into an argument.
And Liddle-Hart is only one of the many books I’ve read on the Second World War.

[MichaelIgnotus]

You’re kinda making my point for me. When an existential threat comes along, there are always factions who do not see it as an existential threat but as an opportunity. In the case of the game, Anu & at least one of the Synedrion factions can see an advantage to living with the virus, while NJ simply hates it and wants to fight it. History suggests that they are bound to go to war with each other in the end - but as others have pointed out, they very rarely walk into their rivals’s camp, exterminate the population, then walk away again. So something more must be happening to make their behaviour so irrational, and since we are presented with multiple examples in the game lore of people behaving irrationally because of the virus, I tend to think it’s that.

[djoles77]

@MichaelIgnotus

When an existential threat comes along, there are always factions who do not see it as an existential threat but as an opportunity. In the case of the game, Anu & at least one of the Synedrion factions can see an advantage to living with the virus, while NJ simply hates it and wants to fight it.

It’s clear that both NJ and Synedrion will be exterminated at the end. War between NJ and Anu I could understand. War between NJ and Synedrion I can’t. I played game twice and both times NJ and Synedrion go to war first.

@MichaelIgnotus

So something more must be happening to make their behaviour so irrational, and since we are presented with multiple examples in the game lore of people behaving irrationally because of the virus, I tend to think it’s that.

Too overstretched theory for me. But I can bet that devs will come with that explanation sooner or later, not because they invented that, but because they read it here on forum and that solution is convenient for them.

Let’s agree to disagree then.

[MichaelIgnotus]

@djoles77

War between NJ and Synedrion I can’t

And there we can agree. Given their stated philosophy, Synedrion’s needlessly aggressive stance makes no real sense and was a real turn-off for me at the start of the game.

@djoles77

Too overstretched theory for me. But I can bet that devs will come with that explanation sooner or later, not because they invented that, but because they read it here on forum and that solution is convenient for them.

Whether it’s retroactively explained, or whether they always meant it that way but simply didn’t explain it well enough, I don’t really care. It makes sense within the lore of the game and that’s what matters to me.

Have fun

[djoles77]

@MichaelIgnotus

Have fun

Of course. Cheers!

[Rainer]

@Mr.Sticky

once aliens come out to murder everyone you have ever known, you tend to find common ground.

Okay I was clearly being unnecessarily harsh that day so first I apologize for that.

But in this point I’d say: Half of the factions want to utilize the aliens, half want to destroy them outright. That kind of throws a wrench in things I think. Anu love mutation and submission of will basically, and New Jericho are the antithesis of that. Synedrion is another thing altogether but have their own inter-faction problems that swing either more supportive or less supportive of the mutations.

As for the existential threat… I think that’s part of the problem isn’t it? Once the virus revelations are had, Anu shrug it off and New Jericho announce how they’ve been “Right all along” and that this gives them the excuse to exterminate any mutants and supporters of. They see those people as basically the Priest class in the game. Might show up and start mind controlling people. You saw what happened at the first NJ Haven (on Legend difficulty anyway).

I just got the strong impression that New Jericho doesn’t see the Anu as people anymore, but as aliens themselves that also need to be exterminated and that’s what leads to the war mostly.

What I don’t really understand is why Synedrion would go to war with anyone. I could see Anu maybe wanting to exploit them but there really wasn’t much else I’d consider to be convincing enough for NJ and Synedrion to go to war with one another in a time like this.

Considering my first campaign was with Anu as my enemy faction and Synedrion + NJ as Allies (but hostile with one another) the story played out in a way that made enough sense to me - I was a bit slower then. Since then I’ve played it from other perspectives and it’s not really matching up as well as it did the first time. Me helping boost NJ tech and then Synedrion getting pissed off and going to war just because, despite me also being their ally. That seemed really weird…