Please. stop we must save the earth not killing each other : |
Actually, I have a better idea: stopping the faction warfare should be repeatable quest within the base game…
I agree. When the world is being invaded by aliens, I’m sure most factions/countries wouldn’t even have time to war with each other. Not only is it not realistic, but it’s not fun having to choose between helping some stupid automated war so a haven isn’t lost and something actually important.
Having them fight or dislike each other is one thing, (maybe they conduct espionage on one another, or sabotage each other, etc.) but having them destroy entire havens for no reason while the world is being invaded is just a stupid design decision; they’re more clever than that (at least I would hope so) and it seems lazy.
If anything, they should be HELPING each other when the Pandorans are attacking their faction havens; it just isn’t fun the way it is regarding that mechanic.
They all develop some way to overcome alien invasion. They don’t need other factions and their believers.
Factions and countries will ALWAYS have time to war on each other. Humans have been doing it non-stop since the first two tribes met. There will never be a scenario where all humanity suddenly gets along.
It ramps up way too fast in game with little to no way to reverse it in my view but they can’t even stop infighting within their own groups, let alone other factions with goals completely at odds with their own.
I’d like to see special missions that allow us to boost diplomatic relations between two factions. Maybe cross faction rescues of a crashed airship’s crew or defense missions where we hold off the Pandorans until a Synedrion operative can install some piece of repulsion tech on a NJ base tower.
Honestly, if one group thought their way of saving everyone was ‘the only way’ and then other groups came around and had conflicting solutions that potentially put your “Absolute assured way to save all humanity and our desired way of life that is beyond refute and represents the only salvation of humanity” at risk… then everyone would kill anyone not following their path, probably even faster than they try to in Phoenix Point.
Nothing justifies one group of people killing another group of people like knowing you’re absolutely right and are the saviours of the entire human race and everyone else doing anything but what you know must be done are deluded fools that are a threat to your efforts saving humanity.
It’s not murder… it’s saving the human race.
That mod already exist. Check out Mod Nexus.
But you never ever kill assets in the middle of the war and infrastructure,personnel, scientists and average-Joe-types are assets in the war like this. So most of population and heavens themselves should stay mostly intact. Example IRL: in one of most secrete and important scientific organisations in Moscow till 80s there was one guy that has being going to work everyday like this: uniform of SS officer - 1, Iron Cross medal - 1, medal of Order of Lenin - 1. For decades. Nobody killed him. Even in USSR, a state which killed its own citizens by tens of millions. Because he was an asset.
I completely disagree with your “absolutes”. I don’t believe factions and countries will ALWAYS have time to war with each other. I do agree that they have been doing it, but that doesn’t mean the unforeseeable future has to be that way. Reagan said it best, “Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.”
I mean, have we ever been invaded by extraterrestrial beings that caused a catastrophe? No. So, we can’t say for certain that WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE TIME FOR WAR WITH EACH OTHER; I think that’s not only pessimistic, but unreliable and definitely uncertain. If 1/2 of the planet is completely destroyed in an instant from an alien attack or something, I like to TRY to believe that human beings would work together or die together and not accelerate the extermination process by killing our own race simultaneously alongside the aliens. Otherwise, that’s a pretty sad story and really bums me out.
My reply was actually mainly focusing on the fun factor of having to choose whether to save a haven from being completely destroyed by another faction that you are allied with and a story/side/research/exploration/scavenging/citadel marker instead. I guess that’s a strategy layer if you want to think of it that way, but not really. That, to me, IMO, is not fun. IMO.
Ok. That’s… great?
I’m afraid history has proven you wrong on this more times than I can count. I’ll give you 3 famous examples:
NATIVE CANADIANS: During the 1600s, the Algonquin, the Iroquois and the Mohawk found their territory was being occupied by small groups of white-skinned aliens with mega-weapons that were light years ahead of their own, and carrying a deadly virus than nearly wiped the natives out. Instead of uniting against this threat, they chose to ally with different parts of it, so that they could use these mega-weapons to destroy each other. Most notably, the Algonquin fortress of Kitcisìpirinik, impregnible until the arrival of gunpowder, was attacked and almost destroyed by both the Mohawk and the Iroquois, and the Algonquin were eventually driven from their lands. Sound familiar?
THE HIGHLAND SCOTS: Various Highland Clans spent most of their history allying with various British forces so that they could get one over on their rivals. The most notorious (but not the only) instance was the infamous Glencoe Massacre of 1692, in which the Campbells working for the English massacred Clan MacDonald in an inverse version of the Red Wedding (the MacDonalds were hosting them at the time).
THE ROMAN INVASION OF BRITAIN: King Cogidubnus and Queen Cartimandua did very nicely out of siding with the Romans against their native rivals thank you very much. Cogidubnus got a lovely new palace at Fishbourne, and Cartimandua’s Brigantes gained control of northern Britain. And I’ll bet you didn’t know that the Iceni of Boudicca originally allied with the Romans to kick out the Catuvellauni and the Trinovantes from East Anglia. They took out preferential loans from Roman bankers, minted Roman-style coins and started building Roman-style villas. They only revolted after the Roman equivalent of the sub-prime scandal caused the likes of Seneca to call in their loans, and an over-zealous Roman tax collector sparked the revolt when, instead of simply collecting the half-share of his kingdom left to Rome by Boudicca’s husband Prasutagus and leaving her with the rest, he kicked her out on the streets and let his men rape her daughters. If that hadn’t happened, the Iceni would happily have kept using the Romans to beat the Trinovantes down instead of uniting with them against the Romans.
So I’m afraid history goes against you time and again. Look at Syria today - even in the face of ISIS, the Assad regime and Turkey would rather kill the Azeris and the Kurds than completely wipe out the existential threat looming in the east - and use the advanced tech of the Russians and Americans to do it.
In fact,the only thing the game appears to have got wrong is that the factions aren’t allying with the Pandas against each other. It sucks, but it’s human nature.
That doesn’t alter the fact, however, that it would be much more fun for most players to have a middle way where they could try to keep the peace. Personally, I’d like to see JG & the Devs include this as one of the 5 DLC - I’d call it ‘Rise of the Peacemakers’. When I have time, I’m going to propose it on this forum. If they don’t do it, it would be lovely if some modder took it up.
My issue with the faction wars is not that they happen nor that they are so brutal but that they dont occupy enemy havens - instead wiping them out.
That doesnt make sense. Youd subjugate enemy populous and incorporate useful assets to make use of against the enemy - be they another faction or the pandorans.
Just destroying the settlements is a loose loose situation. Now they spend resources to anihilate assets that would be benificial to their cause.
Of course, there is an in-game reason for this which has just occurred to me.
What if the Faction Wars are a product of the Pandora Virus? Then they make perfect sense. The Virus has already driven humans to enter the sea in droves, rip their eyes out, turn against their own Haven (see the NJ intro mission). So perhaps this is simply the final manifestation of the PandaVirus’s Human Extermination Program.
If that’s the case, though, the game needs to tell us as much. Otherwise, we’re left scratching our heads and wondering why the world’s just gone stark, staring mad.
Sad to say it, but I think we still would try to wipe each other out. I think he Faction Wars are fine as is, though it could be interesting to see them happen at different rates, (maybe depending upon difficulty) or in different ways (I can see 2 factions ganging up on 1 before going at each other).
I would gladly see that they take over havens instead of destroying them. Isn’t it like that right now? It was announced to be like that. That there will be assets of one faction in the Haven of the other.
IMHO historical discussion here is counterproductive. Now from gameplay point of view - permanent warfare is not interesting or functional. I understand that its intent is to give a player opportunity to participate in fights against factions while preserving internal narrative logic and creating additional challenge. Lets face it: it doesn’t deliver something interesting to play with. Once again’ a mission-based quests to stop (or sometimes ignite) wars between factions would be much more interesting and engaging. But for this warfare have to be temporary and/or local. I would say that the infrastructure for such “diplo-wargame” is already there (for example relations are actual asymmetric scales, and you have relations with heavens too’ not only global leadership), but for some reason what is implemented is “a lazy” permanent war…
What is/isn’t interesting is subjective opinion.
I personally find the faction war aspect of the game interesting, what I’d like to see if anything is more factions, so that those wars could sprout off into different directions.
Would like this too. There are quite a few ‘neutral’ factions that are technically splinter factions of one of the main 3 that broke away because they represented some extreme end of that factions ideology.
Like the neutral faction haven you can encounter that is inhabited by pure cyborgs that have heavily augmented every member of their population and represent the extreme end of the New Jericho ideology.
Would love to see these neutral factions step up and play a more significant role and maybe even trigger things like ideology shifts across major factions.
If you move to intervene in the faction haven attacks the wars will grind to a halt regardless of their status.
NJ is at war with Synedrion and Anu in my campaign but they’re all stuck in a cold war right now because I took out their strike teams. Spanked them and sent them to bed without supper.
Nexusmods has a mod for limiting / eliminating wars including turning them into raids instead of genocide.