Xcom 1994, FiraxisCom (+Long War) is a logical and harmonious Finished design.
You know that I agree PP is “still beta in progress” / due to bugs, unbalances and to me, need for better end boss. We are promised more maps, more contents, more changes and even more enemies, so we will see where does it leads us.
To me, it was easier to execute Fireaxis Xcom as less globally tactically complex game. But if I would remind its early games - it had quite sheer of its bugs on release, and would not at time of release consider it finished https://xcom.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_&Update(XCOM:_Enemy_Unknown)
But main idea and concepts of PP are very good, its execution that needs polish.
I see similar “plague” all around modern games - I consider them final after 2-3 years with all DLCs, when all bugs and tweaks are done and extra layers of content added.
Multiply by 2 (for SG) if either side has the patience (Devs or Players).
I consider Steam release, as real one, not just for Steam love, but because everything seemed even more experimental before 1.9.x. So lets say couple of years from now, depends on game fate.
Where I would certainly agree is that everyone now views the new XCOMs through the rose-tinted glasses of WotC and the Long Wars. They forget that it took almost a decade to get to the polished state those are currently in.
I remember not even bothering to try Enemy Unknown for a year because of player warnings about bugs.
I remember both Second Wave Options and the Long War being introduced as solutions to player complaints about difficulty - from both ends of the spectrum.
And the howls of anguish at the long loading times and interminable cutscenes in the first year of XCOM2 were as loud as all the current complaints about PP - I remember poring over player-guides about how to reduce your FPS just so that you could get it to play properly on a bog-standard machine.
And that was with all the resources that Firaxis had at its disposal.
So expecting PP to be in a similarly polished state, even 1 year after release, in the middle of a global pandemic, is a tad optimistic.
That said, I’m as disappointed as the next player that PP was built in such a way that it cannot easily provide mod support. Whether this was intentional or a mistake is a moot point now, but I think it will only harm the longevity of the game in the long term. Games like XCOM and Mass Effect are still being played today because the modding community helped elevate them to a whole 'nother level after their ‘finished’ release.
X1 + all DLCs = about 8 years + LW1
X2 + all DLCs = about 5 years + Modds
(5-6 years) + 2-3 more years, the SG will withstand that much if the Community side is ready to Wait? Ready to Help?
This does not close the questions about - Broken:
- Medkits and treatment system
- Volume and Weight of Inventory
- … many more forum topics and Canny tickets
- Broken Design - OP skills
Who is sure that this will be Fixed / Modified by Devs if it has already become a Part of the Game?
PS. And if not, then … I am definitely talking about a Successful and Finished Game in the Future?
If Devs open Modding, there is a high probability that the Active Community itself will start building its “Own Game” and stop helping in development.
- Is Devs profitable to open Modding?
My point in a nutshell. It took XCOM2 5 years + mod support + the 8 years of experience from XCOM:EU/EW to get to the smoothly polished state against which everyone is comparing PP after 2 years of development with a smaller team.
I’m not saying that PP has nothing wrong with it - I spend most of my time telling the devs exactly what I think is wrong with PP and pointing out all the bugs. And believe me, the CC doesn’t pull its punches where longstanding bugs that should have been fixed months ago are still cropping up.
But expecting PP to have the same level of smoothness and polish as XCOM2 at this stage in its development is like expecting a Second Division team to win the Champion’s League on its first attempt.
- It will be clearer and more candid if you describe Your Optimistic plan for the development of PP in the future: Timing, Quality.
- And then the answer is, are you ready to wait and help until time X?
That’s what every crowd-funded game is, the backers waiting and helping (you know, the “paid beta access”) until the dev team finishes/gives up.
@noStas, I think you just want too much. You seem to expect a perfect thing, you won’t get it. They have another game in development now, I really hope it’s PP2, and that it can polish the raw gem that is PP.
For myself, I expect SG to continue working on PP until DLC5 comes out, and then some small bugfixes. I’m not caring much for the DLCs besides Festering Skies, and I’ll be glad if I can get a version without bugs that I can play in my slow pace. For me the best version of the game until now was necronomicon, of course YOE has many improvements but Arkham and YOE brought many bugs that took out the enjoyment of the game for me. I’m aching to play it but won’t until Festering Skies come and I can see some improvements on the bugs. I hope we can get to that by february-april…
PP is not ideal today, but it can be. I would like to say a huge thank you to the guys from cc and to all the active users whom I enjoy reading. Please continue in the same spirit.
I see many examples of this, for a long time.
Mods for the game are always an attempt to create the Ideal.
Genius, as opposed to mediocrity, is to make the uncertain - Real.
IMHO, SG does not Grow / Evolves since its release in 2019.
And the “Comfortable Position” of a part of the Community (the rest left the forum) certainly does not help to change the Result.
have it coming
Haters belong to the internet and bussiness.
We should not take it too personally or surrender because of them.
But look from the different side, The Phoenix Point has a marketing campaign leaded by Julian Gollop himself
So PP is not supposed to be game only for small community of players, who idealize it,
also costs 50 € (full price without present discount), this is not price for independent game, it is normal, that people have an expectations
Lets say openly, that Epic exclusivity deals have a controversial reputation between players, so some “snakebites” were expected. I have Epic account, and I was glad to claim Total War Troy for free, but I like Steam, because has comments, reviews by real players, and achievements
With Epic deal, me personally, I do not blame Snaphot, I though, that was good pragmatic step, PP would receive more money and time to develop game, and now as i finally play - Yes, I expected more “polished” game, but hope, it will go forward thanks to feedback from steam
Criticism is not bad thing; I see it as opportunity, I would say, somebody with -analytical thinking- have to start inspect the negative reviews, where the players have the problems, if they are real, and what is source of the problems
Assuming SG is an indie studios like HBS before they were bought by Paradox, and assuming PP will follow a similar development-release-refinement-support timeline schedule to HBS’ BATTLETECH, according to my personal experience, IMHO I think we’re in for ongoing game refinement and bug fixes support until about three to four months after PP’s last planned DLC will have been released.
After that deadline the state of the art of PP will be set as final as if laser engraved on a titanium plate.
Just tell me, do you understand that these “broken things” are over 2 years old?
Sure I do.
What I actually meant is that, if my previous experience with HBS might be assumed the usual way of business for small indie studios, after 3-4 months have passed since the last planned DLC release support il stop add the studios will move on to the next project no matter what, or how many, bugs will be still out there in the game at that moment. Even though, too be completely honest, in BATTLETECH case the leftover bugs were quite limited in number and didn’t affect such game’s player experience very much.
Was it there?