So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?


#185

Developers doesn’t have to consult every decision they made but Maybe for this one they should have inform the backers in advance.

We paid in advance to help this game be made, we gave money to the developer, the developer told us that we could have the game in one of the plataform available at the time and now from nowhere the conditions are changing in a way that looks a bit force to the users.

It sounds like “it’s or way or the highway”.
Yes, we can ask for a refund but this looks like “well we needed certain number people to launch the project and attract investors/partners and now that we have more money from other places we will play with their rules and we don’t need you anymore”

Yes, if we stay and wait one year, we can have the game in the plataform that were promised with one year of dlc (and BTW what kind of DLC?, because since we have to wait a complete year would be nice to know at least what we are going to receive. New mission, maybe cosmetics, hats?)

And what kind of precedent this will create for other crowfounding projects? They will announce something, people gave them the money, and once they have their objetives they will change the conditions when they want?

In my opinion and for what I know about the Epic Store this exclusivity deal doesn’t improve anything to the users.

I don’t have a problem if they want to add the Epic Store to the previous options, but force the exclusivity a few months before release, I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s right.

And talking about that, we focused a lot in Steam and GoG, but what will happen with the deal with the Microsoft store?


#186

@Gunlord500
You may justify them doing it for the cash, of course they have done it for the cash. They most certainly didn’t do it for their customers.
Anyway, what you can’t justify is the lies and the broken promises. I actually ask the question before I backed, ‘will I be able to get a GoG key’ and the answer was ‘obsoletely’ . And I don’t even have to mention how the must have known the hatred most gamers have Epic, yet they went ahead anyway.

This Epic disease my be good for the publisher, but it’s really bad for the gamer, really bad if allowed to continue.

You know, I don’t even think I want it in a year on GoG or stream. It’s disgraceful what they have done and I’m not really happy to ever purchase from them after this.
Some really good news for the developers of Xenonauts-2 though.


#187

I guess I am with the few that are left! I paid to get a copy of the game to play. I am still getting that copy, just will be through a shitty, non-preferred installer.

Do I want another shitty installer, hell no.
Would epic be my choice, nope.
Would I prefer GOG, hell yes.
Do I agree with it, nope.
BUT…
Can people get a refund, yup.
Does it give the folks making the game some security, sounds like it.
Will it be on steam after a year, sounds like it.

I remember when all these same things were being said about steam! and it wasn’t that long ago. Guess I am just getting old.


#188

I disagree. I have a Steam account and have been using GOG Galaxy for years, so this is not platform bias. I have a Uplay account which I used for Far Cry 3 and Ghost Recon, but I refuse to use it since it has been hacked twice. I prefer not to reward incompetence with continued support. The root of the current problem is, we were promised Steam and GOG, then forced to accept Epic. We were not consulted prior to the decision. This sort of bait & switch can be expected from Russians developers, but PP started as a grass-roots effort, but once things were up and running, Snapshot jettisoned us as soon as Epic started throwing money around. Personally, I doubt this game will be released before 2021, and by then I will be playing Xenonauts 2 and Cyberpunk 2077. Coincidentally, I assume the probability that Cyberpunk 2077 going to Epic times exclusive to be exceptionally low, because those guys actually respect their customers.


#189

No, snapshot should’ve asked us first. All of us, their backers. You know, people who were willing to help them get off the ground when no publishers were interested in the game they were trying to make.

Yeah, I heard about a thing like that. It’s called feature creep and, in case you don’t know, its a bad thing :wink:


#190

You will still have this but later on. It would be strange if the conditions didn’t change. They gave up Linux, they signed with Microsoft, and now they signed with Epic. All this have changed since the start of crowdfunding. But game also have grown up and we still receive it. What more we will get a game that will eat other TBS for a breakfast. If you are really so annoyed then you can take your money. No one is robbing you.

So you see for yourself you will get platform you want. :slight_smile: And DLCs?

  • Additional armor and weapons sets with mission related to them
  • Floating Bases,
  • Underwater missions
    The last one is not 100% confirmed but was on the table.

Of course they can. They can even cancel project.

It is not right, but still viable decision after what I have heard. I would also like to have access to all 3 platforms to choose from, but then Snapshot would not get all the additional funding.

And you will get it.

You will still have it so root cause of the problem is cut off. :slight_smile:

Sure, we have to be consulted, because we all are in the board of directors.

Do you want to make a bet? :wink:


#191

I actually mentioned Xenonauts in a post on Reddit. To quote what I said there…not to be morbid, but how can we be sure the same thing won’t happen to Xenonauts? According to Wikipedia, Tencent is one of the biggest game companies in the world; when you take into account all of its holdings, possibly the 5th biggest company overall in the world. Xenonauts 2 made even less than Phoenix Point, about 400,000 dollars American. Tencent could offer Chris England a million dollars and he’d snap it up, as even if everyone refunded he’d end up with more money than he started with. And a million dollars would be chump change to Tencent.

As angry as folks justifiably are about getting bought out by Tencent, at least PP is offering us steam and GoG eventually. I fear that as time goes on, it will turn out that PP actually made “the least bad” choice compared to what is to come. If not Xenonauts 2, then many other games, indie or otherwise, might get eaten up by the voracious Tencent without even the option of non-exclusivity in the future…


#192

Well 9 people out of a 10 have voted Julian’s bad-news video down. So if that’s anything to go by I would think this sly move by snapshot has not gone down well.


#193

So you and yokes are the office shills? Are you paid or do you do it for free?


#194

Because everyone voted. :wink: Especially those who are indifferent. I almost never use ‘thumb up’ or ‘down’ on youtube. If I had to make a decision here, probably I would click ‘down’ because I don’t like changes, but still I support Snapshot. :wink:


#195

Whatever…….


#196

If you ask so seriously then my answer is that actually it is us who pay Snapshot just to troll you. :wink:


#197

Hi all

I have both gog and steam yet, love gog for wallet recharge when purchasing, love steam for the workshop… But thats enough. Understand that epic is like scrap but if this let develop a better game i dont see anything bad.


#198

If Xenonauts 2 goes to Epic, I will dump them too. The continuing discussion of Tencent should be juxtaposed against the tweet by the CD Projekt Red guys, who were quite dismissive of the idea of going to Epic. It would appear that the house shills here on the forums are attempting to muddy the waters with ever-changing goalposts. I suggest we do the logical thing and compare Snapshot, and all devs actually, to the performance of CD Projeckt Red. Allowing developers to dictate what is acceptable is what gave us Diablo mobile. We, the consumers, must demand a higher standard, or be stuck with one Fallout 76/Anthem type disaster after another.


#199

This is the stones first turn, wait until it’s starts gathering momentum. They must have known this would be the reaction so I can’t understand why they went ahead and cut their own throat.

Anyway once I have my money back, I’m done. There are a lot of games out there made by decent developers that won’t touch Epic and are not tempted by their BS, so no loss.


#200

For the record, I’m an ordinary paying punter in my fifties, and I’ve been round the block a few times.

I’ve seen this kind of thing happen before with Steam, with X-Box, most upsettingly with Madden.
Everybody rants. Everybody says: ‘This will ruin the company…’ '‘They’re never getting a penny of my money again…’ ‘This will destroy gaming forever…’
It never does, they always do and Gaming goes on, just in a different form.

I HATE Steam, I’ve always hated Steam - I think it sucks. The amount of problems I’ve had with it over the years doesn’t bear thinking about (in the early days it would take 2 WHOLE DAYS to download a game I had bought in good faith in a store and expected to be able to install from disc), and the fact that I can only play the games I want to play by subscribing to it still sticks in my craw. But that’s the way that Gaming works now, so I’m stuck with it and people are now so used to it that they seem to think the sun shines out of its proverbial backside. Epic’s just another Steam on the block as far as I’m concerned. I don’t like it, but them’s the breaks.

And from what I’ve watched and read about how hard it is to get a good Indie game off the ground, I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual stark choice you really have here is ‘PP funded by Epic’ or ‘no PP at all’. Given that choice, I know which I’m going to take.

So no, I’m no-one’s company shill. I’m just an ordinary human being with a sense of perspective born of seeing this same tired old argument rehashed every 5 or 10 years, when some games company or other takes the money and runs with it.


#201

No, the change doesn’t benefit the users. The inclusion of free DLC sounds beneficial to early backers, but personally I would rather choose my platform and buy DLC later. Still, for my $25 pledge it sounds like a steal. But yeah, this deal benefits Epic, by forcing unwilling customers unto their platform, and Snapshot, by giving them a injection of cash.

Does it hurt the customer? I don’t believe it does. It’s not what we backed, but it doesn’t change the end product in any meaningful way. There is free content to soften the blow, and a promise to be able to migrate to a different platform after a year has passed. It is an inconvenience for sure, but not much beyond that.

However, the point you raise about devs changing terms of crowdfunding for a temporary cash boost before securing funding from a corporation is a valid one. As I mentioned before, the integrity of the game has been put to question, even if I don’t believe that there was any malicious intend on Snapshot’s part.

Though, to be honest I have been more worried about the small budget Snapshot seems to operate with, so this deal actually alleviates some of my worries. In addtion, say what you want about Epic Store, but games they have been securing and giving out are pretty great.

I play games on Steam, before migrating to GOG when possible, I can play on Epic Store and migrate to GOG when possible. It’s not like Epic will get anymoney from me via Phoenix Point


#202

I have GOG too and love it. Ignore the “platform bias” accusation as it is just an effort to distract us from more relevant issues.


#203

I’ll admit to being a staunch defender of Phoenix Point, and I’m willing to stick with the project even now, but that’s only because I’ll be getting my Steam key eventually. I’ve been pretty vocal about my distaste for Epic Games, so while I can tolerate being called a shill for PP, just to make things clear, I’m certainly not a shill for Epic or Tencent.

I’m looking forward to Cyberpunk too, but again–CD Projekt can afford to thumb their noses at Tencent. The new Cyberpunk game almost certainly cost a lot more than PP, enough that it might be a trifling matter for Tencent to buy it out as opposed to entirely insignificant. But that’s not the case for any indie game, arguably any game at all, that costs less than 10 million dollars to make–Tencent is just that huge. I don’t think us consumers can do anything about it. We can choose to boycott games, of course, and I entirely understand anyone who chooses to do so. But what long-term effect will that have? Tencent makes enough money to just eat up our boycotts. The only way to stop them would be to beg the Chinese government to put a lid on them, and the Chinese government sure as hell doesn’t want to do that…Tencent works for them. :confused:


#205

You’re destined to rep earth!