Granted, reducing number of shots is the easiest way to fix RB, turning it into triple tap, or quadruple tap.
I’m not sure about the need for scaling though, because AP cost of RB is the same as the cost of firing the weapon, so it’s already scaled: a pistol can be RBed for 1 AP, an AR for 2, cannon for 3, etc. If further scaling is introduced, wouldn’t the pistol become OP, firing up to 48 rounds in one turn?
Having said that, a perk where you empty a mag in a wide sweep it’s just too cool to pass up, IMO.
Making every RB cost the same AP regardless of the weapon and scaling for number of shots would just basically reduce the WP cost.
So currently 12 pistol shots (full clip) cost 1ap and 5Wp. Shifting to “quadruple tap” without the proposed scaling would mean 4 pistol shots for 1 AP and 6WP, so 12 shots (using RB 3 times) would cost 3 AP and 18WP. With the proposed scaling 12 pistol shot would cost 3AP/6WP.
However, the more I think about it the less satisfying I find this solution to be (whether with or without the weapon scaling). The thing is, a perk that just let’s you shoot more times for less AP is not very interesting.
Yeah, I want sweep, and maybe keep RB as it is now (fire until the clip is empty) but with higher AP and WP cost and substantial accuracy decay.
I was and still am looking at rage burst through the lens of its damage and cost efficiency against large pandorans rather then the “rule of cool” “dragfire” request. I am not looking it from an accuracy/effective range or “trash sweeping” perspective.
I proposed double tap over triple/quadruple shots for the reason that it keeps the efficiency of the weapon more in line with other powerful skills like quick aim (double tap however is slightly stronger on anything other then pistols)…even though quick aim is not a capstone skill.
you only need to get a damage efficiency slightly over 800 damage/4AP to kill a large pandoran without the aid of another unit. get it over 1500 and you effectively kill any single pandoran entity with that unit provided you have means to get past the armor (deceptor/harrower or second soldier with a setup maneuver). especially with weapons like the iconoclast (800/4AP) mercy/harrower shotguns (640/4AP) deceptor (640/4AP +shred* 480/3AP means use of quick aim or adrenaline rush is extra potent) it is very easy to hit these thresholds even with very few “taps” in the burst.
note that, if a sniper is no longer powerful enough to 1-burst a big pandoran down…that job will be passed on to another weapon that can if such weapon skill combo is available. and so far…this game has had no problem sacrificing precision for damage due to the small maps and the ever increasing target sizes. from my perspective if the “meta moves to a different weapon” problem is not resolved as well, you will just end yup with the same request for the skill nerfs later on…
I understand what you are saying, but the problem with current RB is not only one shot kill, but one shot kill at any distance as long as the thing’s pinky toe is visible.
Personally, I would be OK with a setup where RB is a one shot kill at very close distances, provided that closing the distance doesn’t become trivial. What about imposing a condition like you can’t use dash in the same turn before RB?
I would not have designed something like RB at all … but I suppose we now have to live with it.
One thing to consider while reworking it: since it is a form of rage make it feel like rage with appropriate after-effects. Make it drain all remaining will (minimum 6) and lock the soldier in place for the next round (0 AP). Also, each subsequent shot could have increasing spread.
Cannot be used after soldier uses any other skill that costs WP
“Fire the weapon in a sweep with decreasing accuracy until the clip is empty”
Drops WPs to 0 after use and the soldier has 0 APs the next turn.
I think this works. Actually, to keep with the skills sandbox spirit of the game design it could be allowed to work with all weapons, provided the accuracy decay is sufficient, as it would naturally encourage automatic weapons VS semi & single shot.
I both think it is too powerful with something like a Sniper Rifle and that also doesn’t fit the theme of the skill, so I would limit it to automatic weapons:
Only be possible with automatic weapons
Cost 6WP, +1AP to regular shot
Cannot be used after soldier uses any other skill that costs WP
“Fire the weapon in a sweep with decreasing accuracy until the clip is empty”
Drops WPs to 0 after use and the soldier has 0 APs the next turn.
I think I have found an simple solution. For the duration of Rage Burst the accuracy of ANY weapon used is equal to a set value of 5.
This will make any weapon usable only at point blank range and make bullet spread exactly like in an Arnie movie or “Aliens”.
Explanation: if you are spending your clip in a couple of seconds you obviously are not using the weapon sights, be it a shotgun or a sniper rifle. More probable than not you are shooting from the hip.
Continuing the theme of the post cover multiple targets, you can change RB as in BB5 by increasing from 2 up 5 control points with a wide spread (№:1-2-3-4-5). While MG / AR will have a continuous line of bullets, SR / Pistol will have 5 selected targets in one go (№1, №2, №3, №4, №5).
Interesting thread, lots of great suggestions and I too feel like Rage Burst is basically a “precision instagib” button at the moment when combined with something like a sniper rifle. Even with a basic-tier and more inaccurate weapon like the Hel Cannon, unloading a full magazine with no accuracy penalty can kill most enemies. It certainly makes taking down Scyllas and Chirons in a single turn pretty easy, especially since they’re so big.
However, I feel like making it a sweep for every weapon type makes it essentially useless for some of them which fire a single bullet per shot (such as pistols, snipers, etc) since most would end up wasted between enemies. Making it apply only to automatic weapons makes more sense if the targeting is a sweep, but also means that it ends up being an entirely useless capstone skill if your heavy uses a non-automatic weapon (whereas the sniper and assault capstone skills generally apply to any weapon, to no discourage multi-classing).
I propose an alternative, to keep it relevant for all weapon types rather than limiting it to automatic weapons only (similar to the above suggestion by noStas):
Costs +1 from regular weapon AP cost: rb_ap = ap + 1
Soldier WP determines maximum number of shots (up to the number of shots remaining in the magazine or the soldier’s remaining WP): 1WP spent per shot from any weapon that fires multiple bullets per shot (automatic weapons, possibly excluding shotguns) and one-handed weapons (due to ease of handling) rb_shots = min(shots_remaining, (soldier_wp)), 2WP spent per shot from any single-fire weapon or melee weapon rb_shots = min(shots_remaining, (soldier_wp / 2)). The soldier is reduced to 0 WP whether or not there is any WP remaining after calculating the number of shots the soldier can take
Weapon accuracy is decreased by 50%, but first capped at 30 (so that snipers still can’t be OP, the highest resulting accuracy when using RB would be 15): rb_acc = min(weapon_acc, 30) / 2. Could also be a good idea to remove all accuracy bonuses granted by the soldier when using RB, so that accuracy is solely based on the weapon being used (though in that case it might be better to cap the accuracy a bit higher before cutting it in half, maybe around 40)
For every shot being fired, you can assign it to an enemy within the soldier’s LOS but cannot use manual/precision aiming (shot will be fired by default at center-mass). Multiple shots can be assigned to the same enemy, or they can all be assigned to different enemies in sight. Each shot consists of whatever the standard burst size is for the weapon, as if using a standard “fire weapon” action
Alternatively, the number of shots taken using RB would still be the entire remaining magazine (instead of based on remaining WP) and instead the accuracy for the RB action would just be the lowest of 10 or the weapon’s base accuracy, with a bonus depending on the soldier’s remaining WP: rb_acc = min(weapon_acc, 10) + soldier_wp. Then WP would still be reduced to 0 after using RB.
I agree that it should be available to single shot weapons too (once the accuracy is taken care of) to be coherent with the game design, but I don’t think that the sweep makes them completely useless, because the player would decide how wide to make the sweep. With a single shot weapon the start point and the end point of the sweep would be the same, so that no inbeetwen shots are wasted.
IMO it’s an interesting idea for a skill, but it’s not rage burst. Because, well, the rage aspect is missing. This is too methodical, calculated, orquestrated… Thematically it’s the difference between Jesse Ventura’s finger stuck on the trigger button nothing can survive this, and John Woo’s, the guy in the middle of a bunch of baddies spinning and shooting at them. Note that in terms of gameplay something similar would happen, as a clear advantage of the skill is that you can hit the guy in front of you and behind with the same shot.
This sounds right, but I wonder how difficult it would be to implement decreasing accuracy after each shot? (So start at a higher accuracy cap and then decrease it)
