Would the game balance better without dual classing?

I posted a response that would apply here as well downthread.

Yes, that is a problem.You get to level 7, all perks, max or near max stats (they do get rather pricey toward the end), pretty early on. Reminiscent of Colonels in XCOM2 and WotC. That’s one thing I liked about LW2 - the “officers” and their group abilities. I think some of the balance issues are with the monsters. There really aren’t that many types and they don’t really require substantially different strategies. Mostly, just aim and shoot.

My dual class soldiers near end game has all stats at maximum and all desired skills from both classes :wink:

In XCOM2 you have to choose between 2 skills specializations, which means that both cannot be activated by a soldier at the same time. No matter … PP does not necessarily have to do the same, but the current skill level mechanic has a certain “meaninglessness”.

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I agree, this is “Spooky” before Pandoran Palace mission:

Of course they can in early development. But later on they will have so many SP that they will have it all.

I play only with single class soldiers because I put restrictions on my playthrough. And I do this because I know that class combinations are too powerful at the moment.

I have to try that, single class, same restrictions for abilities

this is my final opinion

True. And in the sense that all roads lead to roughly the same soldier at the end, I agree. I’m sure there is resistance to “copying” XCOM2 and desire to stand out, but they have done that with targeting, for example, and other features. But non-descript leveling is, if not meaningless, uninteresting.

True, of course. I suppose when the only option left is to select multi-class or just accumulate SPs, the logical choice would be to multi-class. But the fact that you can reach that point addresses another problem in addition to the purportedly overpowers multi-class system. The game provides no viable alternative to multi-classing. While you can single class and succeed as I do (at least to the point in the game where I am), as you note you run out of ways to improve your character except by multi-classing.
So regardless of which journey you take to get there (multi-class early or late), in the end, your decisions along the way have no particular consequence in how you got there.

Yep. The difference, and perhaps an insignificant one, is how you got there. There are certainly many ways to fix the issue.

Great Question IMO!

I think this aspect of the game is their weakest, it feels very gamey/cheap as I can level up skills for guys and gals even though I never had to use the skill line being upgraded. I dream of a skill system that rewards me for using a weapon enough to randomly generate a skill for that weapon, with more and more skills being added over time as each soldier develops into a uniquely defined soldier, for the good or bad.

If I want a trooper with a heavy weapon I should assign him/her the weapon type; grenade launcher, cannon, flamethrower etc. and they should develop from there while repeatedly using said weapon IMO.

The system in place now is too simpleton for my liking. They have the best gunnery model of any turn based game, yet saddled it with an extremely lame/game skill system that looks like a lazy attempt at coping Firaxis’s xcom for the console crowd… :wink:

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For me it should be done with SP limit. So there is no way to choose all skills when you dual-class and at the same time increase attributes.

I would even say that it shouldn’t be possible to have single class with all skills and all attributes at max. So when taking second class you are limited to mediocre attributes and you can take only few skills, like 3 skills from first class and 2 skills from second class, and nothing more.

And if you really want both skills from level 7 in both classes then you probably will have only 1 other skill from either of classes and you will increase attributes by 3 or 4 points at best even on the Rookie difficulty.

That would create diversity between soldiers. Of course there should be also different aspects to differ them, but that is the case for another What If. :wink:

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I’m late to this party but here is my general thoughts.

I think that multi-classing is a really fun and cool thing to do and open up your soldiers to be more unique individuals. When you also combine it with their special abilities it will get even more interesting.

I also think that if you chose to multi-class you should loose something or at least you should never be able to learn everything all the time, this waters down the ultimate choices you can make.

I have no good solution for exactly what these limitation could be but there should be some trade off when you multi-class so that you perhaps sometimes choose not to do it. It could be as simple as you loose the last skill of both classes.

In addition to this then Skill Points could be more scarce so that it is generally very difficult to max everything out on any one character. One way to do this is simply to make every skill you select more expensive the more skills a character have. This is even quite realistic as it is rather hard to be proficient on many things at the same time because each skill require allot of continuous training to keep those skills at top level. This also goes for general traits… if you want to increase all three traits you will become mediocre at them all, if you want to specialise strength you must perhaps be slightly below mediocre for both Will and Speed or really bad at one and mediocre on the other. After you spend ALLOT of points you can increase it some but you will never manage to be really good at everything before the game ends. At some point the cost of increasing anything will simply be too expensive.

This is probably the way I would have balanced most things, a general cost increased based not only on the skills but also on how many skills you actually have chosen before as well. This would then make multi-classing a real choice not just something you always do no matter what. It also would make soldiers more unique as well.

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Well, looking at plain game as a whole (and not adding the DLC difficulties)
single class is impossible. Palace mission is so difficult even on rookie, that without
combining skills of e.g. assault and rifle or similar with priest and infiltrator, it would be mission impossible.

And is currently “best of” character customization has to offer.

In such light, in future, adding 2 specific new classes per fraction would be great.
Whatever can be imagined.

It’s absolutely doable with just single class soldiers… On my last playthrough I had one sniper/Infiltrator just for testing (he didn’t really do anything) and the rest were 4 Heavies, 2 Assaults, 1 Technician and 1 Infiltrator. I was doing the Anu ending, so I had the Exalted, but she also did very little.

I had 0 casualties, and I didn’t use a single medkit.

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Great, kudos for you. Fighting 2 scillas and bunch of other late game enemies takes a lot, and dual classing really helps. But I assume you are very skilled in game.

I was so terrified of first Citadel play-through on rookie it will take me a lot of practice to try it on Hero and Legend, even I have great progressions there - I wonder how many enemies will be.

On game balancing I suppose SLOWER ENEMY MUTATION would greatly reduce game difficulty for rookie, which is not the case, since they progress so fast towards end of game its hard for player to catch up. I believe it would make game far more acceptable for newbies - which seems to be major obstacle now. Experienced players like it, me too (laser squad - old xcom vet :slight_smile: but takes time to adjust and master.

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I think right now the biggest difference between difficulty levels is that on Legend you only get 5 SPs per mission, which is why until the end of the game I only had single class soldiers - I got used with the previous system to max out stats and then multiclass, and it just didn’t happen on this playthrough.

I think this should definitely be the primary concern - first user experience, new players,etc. and tbh I believe it is, with the Steam release coming and all that.

But whether it’s slower Panda evolution or that and something else, or a bunch of other things, I don’t know.

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you can beat the game with just single class and without LV 7 soldiers, it is doable

Of course you need many flying hours to know how to achieve that

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