Well, in real life, soldiers rarely die immediately after being shot. It is rather common that soldiers in the heat of battle don’t even notice they are wounded, and some do keep on fighting even when mortally wounded (due to adrenaline). That’s why soldiers often complain about the stopping power of their weapons, they expect their enemies to drop after being hit but that’s not always the case.
Oh come on. Two bullets through the body really make the difference. I’m not talking about graze shots.
I don’t talk about graze shot. Unlike movies where people generally drop as soon as they are hit (unless protected by plot armor), in real life soldiers can get hit multiple times before they collapse from their injuries. It also happen that someone will keep on fighting with mortal wounds only to die once the fight is over. I read that from an interview of a real life soldier who explained how different it is in the real world compared to video games and movies. Unfortunately i can’t seem to find it on the net right now.
There’s different levels of realism though aren’t there? - Many games set a precedent of multiple bullets being required in order to kill a target, even if unrealistic, people will buy into that because it is so common.
Where the realism falls of in a way that’s not so common/harder to buy into is that you can’t kill a target just by disabling its head (players often expect to be able to do this, and it is also realistic), whereas you can kill a target if you keep repeatedly shooting it in the toe (which is a lot less expected, and also unrealistic).
With a percentage based system, the player can still imagine where a shot might land, whereas with ballistics you literally see that bullet land smack in the middle of the face and not lead to instant death, and you also see that death by toe shot.
So a more realistic system leads to less buy in of other systems.
Of course Snapshot prides itself on its realistic ballistic system, yet breaks its own rules by allowing an already destroyed body part to cause damage realistic ballistics would prohibit.
Wrong. Only Arthrons have destroyed arms along with weapons (or not?)
Yes they can, but you think it is common to continue fight when someone got hit? I doubt it.
We talked about it and I still think that headshots, as we know them from other games, shouldn’t be possible in Phoenix Point.
Only with sniper rifle, other weapons doesn’t allow for such precision. So with SR I assume it is a shock even if hit is in the toe. 
every solution has a problem.
-you can massively increase her HP and cause limb hemorrhaging…basically delaying her death by making in nearly impossible to deal significant damage outright. the major downside of this is that you made a bullet sponge, it won’t really be very interesting…just tedious.
-sectional invulnerability, basically there is only 1 way to kill it…better make it obvious otherwise people will be utterly confused by an immortal enemy. you would be introducing a new mechanic not shared by other enemies.
-waves, making it so whe doesn’t appear untill a set number of enemies have been removed. having to deal with a number of waves of pandorans before she enters the fight. it will make the citadel harder…but it will once again confuse people when they spot the entire map and don’t see the objective enemy. crying “bug” right away. and it doesn’t make her any less of a turkey shoot
personally though I favor the wave option, along with making the scylla AI a lot more aggressive and dangerous (notably reaction attacks and improving her melee…possibly also focusing on her psychic abilities, so she is actually dangerous to attack and when her turn comes around). as she is currently less of a battleship…more of a cruise liner/structure wrecking ball. this won’t stop players from focus blasting her once she pops up, so it won’t solve everything
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Are we being facetious or sarcastic?
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It depends about which of my reply you ask.
These are all good points.
Of course, it’s important to explain to the players what to do, and not only when it comes to the Scylla. Fortunately that already seems to be in the works, as it is one of the Snapshot change proposals…
Personally, I think the Scylla itself needs to be made more interesting (either the massive HPs/hemorrhaging, or the sectional invulnerability, or something else) and the waves added in the Citadel.
Currently the most (if not only) interesting encounters with the Scylla is when you have to capture her without using Athena RB.
I had a lot of fun last night doing it with the stun pistol; required a lot of teamwork to prevent her from running away (solution: disable head, shoot full of virus to deplete WPs to keep her panicking. Interestingly enough RB with pistol didn’t work because after first hit she covered her head with her arms and the projecticles couldn’t penetrate the armor).
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Depend on many factors. When everyone is high on adrenaline (or stimulant), they may not even feel their injuries (at least, not right away). Other times they may be on a suicide run and only care about inflicting as much damage as they can. That doesn’t mean people are bullet sponges or that everyone will keep on fighting once they realize they are injured. My whole point is that scoring hits on an opfor doesn’t mean it will be incapacitated right away, sometimes they can be exceptionally resilient.
Having to destroy several body parts isn’t more interesting than focus firing one body part to kill it in one round? Having to cripple it first before the doing the killing blow seem more fitting to kill a boss creature.
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well how I see the suggestion work you have a critter with an insane HP pool. then I have to blow off limbs to get it to bleed to death.
In effect this means I do the exact same thing that I do to kill the creature in 1 go…strip the armor, shoot that limb full of ammo. the difference here is that in 1 situation it starts bleeding and I have to repeat it to speed it along and in the other its just dead. in the suggestion I see no need to change the tactic…it just takes longer…and may take more ammo if I decide to speed it along…
the pandoran citadel fight has the problem that the scylla gets blow off the chart in a single turn, this suggestion would solve that…but it does so only by making the fight last longer because it would simply take much more ammo to instantly blow 20K HP away…not because the approach to the unit is different.
this is why I feel the approach will end up being more tedious then the current direct wipe.
I have tried capturing scylla’s with the aspida, I have done it with the snipers not using rage burst, I have done it with the neuraliser and I have done it with the pistols. neuralizer and aspida…not adviced, take long (well… a lot of hits) and you tend to hit parts where you deal no damage and hence inflict no paralysis. aspida states it applies paralysis twice…but that tooltip lies. I generally use multiple paralysis weapons in a squad when doing that (just not multiple aspida’s…so that fight consisted of a lot of hovering after the scylla, I didn’t use “panic” to control that time) I havn’t tried the paralysis tentacles mutation yet.
Hera’s where actually some of the best to capture with, you can target a good spot and the weapon is light, and generally with 3 in the team and 8 shots in every mag you can capture any target of opportunity with minimal effort. paralysis was also a relatively potent control effect…but as a control its better on the sniper as many enemy are badly crippled when half the AP is gone because of the athena’s 20 paralysis, 2 shots and most chirons wouldn’t be able to fire their abdomen anymore, 1 shot and crabs where basically under the effect of a warcry for 2-3 turns.
viral overload works very well, against scylla the advanced viral sniper is better but if you strip a leg the “standard” viral rifles can get to her will cap in a couple of salvo’s. and that will keep her panicked for 15 or so turns. I am using a set of them in my current run but…well viral is even worse then most DoT effects as its a slow acting control effect. (unlike most other effects that either instantly control, permanently cripple and/or kill the target on the next turn. viral triggers at the end of the enemy turn, so you need to apply the viral and another CC to bridge the next turn)
however, even when not controlled, the scylla AI is as I previously stated, more “cruise liner/building wrecking ball”. As apart from a few loadouts its very passive…the scylla itself generally isn’t all that much of a threat. and in order for the citadel to feel like a boss battle…this “cruise liner” needs to advance to a “battleship”. (and naturally not get (almost) instantly controlled by synedrion stun grenades, paralysis or viral)
though the hemorrhaging suggestion, blowing the head off so it starts bleeding there, then loading it up with viral…to get it to “run around like a chicken with its head cut off” would be mildly entertaining.
All weapons are capable of hitting a toe, you may or may not have aimed for that toe, but it’s still possible for the toe to be the body part area which a projectile strikes.
What I was originally refering to however was those situations where you can’t see any part of an enemy other than their toe, because that enemy is behind cover, and yet you can still (repeatedly) target that toe, and shoot it a sufficient number of times to ultimately kill that target.
+1 Yeah, that’s a really good suggestion - I lovd how the queen made her appearence during BB1
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You are correct. However, that’s my point exactly. The total of “un-disabled” body parts is generally greater than the total HP of the unit. Therefore, one would reason (or at least some) that the goal is to remove as many HP’s as possible by hitting multiple body parts, not hitting a part that is disabled and no longer has any HP.
A Triton with a total of 180 HP’s has 360 HP distributed across its various body parts. A direct hit with a sniper rifle dealing 120 damage points to the torso (60 HP), can deal at least 100 damage (depending on armor). That’s 40 over the 60 HP of the body part. We can account the extra damage to trauma. Torso now has 0 HP left. However, a second sniper shot to the torso deals another 100 HP, which equals 1 dead Triton.
The choir keeps chanting about nerfing OP. In my book, being able to do damage to a 0 HP body part is OP. While the 1 body part is bleeding due to being disabled, one should then be required to hit a non-disabled body part to inflict further damage. In the case of this Triton, a hit to any other body part that has HP left. Depending on the weapon and accuracy of the unit, 1 more body part should suffice.
Hitting a totally disabled body part with no HP is kin to 2 Sniper/Heavies with Rage Burst taking out a Scylla (which is very rarely the case). While the choir sings to the high heavens to nerf the latter, few find reason to sing about the prior (which is totally OP IMHO and perhaps more so).
But that’s the whole point of this thread! That’s eactly what the original post in this thread was calling for:
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but sometimes I feel that you are so paranoid about ‘the choir’ and its supposed hidden agenda that you don’t actually listen to what we are actually saying.
I think Voland is in a choir of 1 (maybe 2 with Yokes), when he differentiates damage to the Scylla from other Nasties - and he gave some very well-argued personal reasons for doing so here: We have to talk about the Scylla in the room - #35 by VOLAND
But it’s really not as simple as just saying: “Disabled body parts shouldn’t inflict any more damage,” because not inflicting a knock-out blow to the head is so immersion-breaking, it’s ludicrous.
I can live with Pandas surviving headshots because they’re really a zombie corpse being run by a viral entity. But in humans it’s just stupid! However, the only feasible way to fix that, as far as I can see, is simply to give humans MUCH MORE HP to the head (which is what the skull does in real life) and massively increase the armour value of helmets (which is what they do in real life - the helmet is nowadays often the only metal/composite piece of armour worn by a modern soldier). Then, reducing the head to 0HP could result in a knock-out blow without seriously unbalancing the game.
But as I have said on this thread and in others, I do think that the amount of damage that can be pumped through a disabled body part should be limited - and I’m not the only one who has called for that.
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Agree, but arms are the “new” head-shot in PP
Nice idea, so the soldier is still alive after a “win” mission
Yes, absolutely. I mean, it requires teamwork to prevent her from running away. Her damage dealing capabilities are usually very situational, and if she has the mist bomb, none whatsoever, because she will just spam that.
Here is a thought, why not merge the two things? Give Scylla a massive HP pool and a vital organ, so that she can be killed either way? Also, for her to be stunned it would have to be by hitting the vital organ.
Of course her AI behavior needs to change so that she is more of a “battleship” and her mobility reduced. It’s about making an interesting opponent, not a squad killer.
That was great in first 3 Backers Builds. 
But if devs would get back to it, still her appearance doesn’t prevent “alpha-strike” on her when soldiers still have WP and skills on disposal. Skills (so all modifiers of basic stats) are too powerful compared to weapons. In BB it was great that you had to hold explosives and sniper rounds until Scylla will appear.
We are many.