We have to talk about the Scylla in the room

Scyllas are absurdly easy to take down because they are made wholly from one giant Achilles heel. Strip that one part of Scylla of armor (say, one of its legs) and just shoot there until dead. Their size, instead of making them more formidable, makes them more vulnerable. No need to aim, you will always hit something.

Facing a Scylla never feels like a boss fight - she is a giant :turkey: waiting to be shot.

How about making an exception for the poor Scylla, and requiring first doing enough damage to her to expose a vital organ, and then destroying that organ to bring her down? So once a limb is disabled, it’s not possible to damage her attacking that same limb.

It just shouldn’t be possible to take a Scylla down in a single turn (and yes, there are quite a few ways of doing it with one soldier).

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I like this, could be a simple but effective solution.
Of course they should also work on their AI, because sometimes they do just silly things like running in front of our soldiers to get killed as fast as possible.

On the other side, heaven defense with a Scylla should also not be more difficult as they are now. Sometimes in heaven defense they are not that easy to kill and a real threat.

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That shouldn’t be so easy (remove Weak Spot ability and reduce Armor Break to work only with melee weapons).

Remove multiple shots from sniper rifles and heavy cannons in single turn (Rage Burst only for burst weapons, Quick Aim only for sniper rifles and reducing accuracy instead of increasing it).

And after some other tweaks she will again be dangerous even when you will hit her multiple times as some alien turkey. :wink:

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At times she just won’t come out and play in citadels. She just goes back and both behind the throne hatching mindfraggers. In the meantime, I have to deal with everyone else coming for me in the open.

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And you still have deceptor, hell cannon, acid, explosives and probably something else I’m missing right now to easily remove the armor :wink:. Which IMO is good, it’s good that you can effectively armor from enemies.

Lately I don’t even use RB, TBH. Last Scylla I killed was one shot with hell cannon to remove armor, two bursts with starting AR, and then 3 melee hits (it was an extreme haven defense mission to which I came woefully unprepared, with only 5 guys, 2 of them lvl 7: it was quite epic actually, managed to get out without any casualties and no skill spamming of any kind).

Anyway, you know I agree with you on RB - should be auto weapons only, and serker armor break should be something else (I like the charge skill idea), but I think Scylla needs special attention that goes beyond general balancing :blush:

True, especially considering that often they spawn right next to your squad, which is completely uncool and uncalled for…

Though they also exhibit some very strange behavior. Sometimes they just like to spam mist bombs for no reason. My theory is deep down they know they are a turkey at a turkey shoot and being aware of it just makes them completely break down emotionally.

So, yes, some balancing in her deployment/behavior is also in order.

Doesn’t solve the problem. The only weapon I allow to RB is the Heavy’s Gatling Gun, I never use any Squaddie’s skill more than once per turn, and I reserve Quick Aim solely for Snipers - but a Scylla still goes down in one turn once I’m concentrating fire on her.

I like Scyllas just as they are. If you want them harder, take the last 2 difficulties and play ironman.

But I am! I’m playing hero, no save scumming, no skill spamming. How else do I have to constrain myself? Make it a fist fight only?

I guess this alone would not make it perfect, but it makes the fight much more challenging for around 90% of the players.
One should not forget that if (hopefully) alpha strike is ever banished, the concentration of all attacks on scylla would leave many flanks open, since all other opponents are still alive. That means it brings risks and consequences … so ultimately tactics

So in my opinion it would be a quick and easy B-GRADE implementation.

I would also replace Quick Aim with Stabilize Shot, which ONLY increases accuracy at the expense of WP and therefore no longer allows multi shots (especially with other classes).

@VOLAND
The idea with the weak spot is of course cool too. But it is a new feature … and therefore more complex.

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For Deceptor you need to be close to make it effective even with Rage Burst - assuming you want to nerf soldier’s speed and accuracy bonuses as you suggest in other threads, then it won’t be easy to get so close and fire off.

From Hel Cannon you would need like 8 shots to bring her down (remember you don’t have Rage Burst and other skills which reduce AP cost for heavy cannon).

Acid - well it is overpowered right now, so until it will be toned down it is hard to say if Scylla would need to be buffed.

Explosives - you need quite many of them to bring Scylla down.

Because you still use unbalanced skills (even when putting restrictions on yourself). I suppose that Scylla is quite ok with her stats compared to weapon stats - it is all bonuses to attributes and all the skills which break that balance.

Not necessarily true. It can be done without using “unbalanced” skills.

It depends on what you mean by NOT unbalanced skills … If I didn’t use the “OP” skills, it would be pretty hard, especially because there are more enemys waiting for me.

No, all these are just ways (off the top of my head) to break the armor from one body part. After you break it you can take her down with basic ARs if you want.

The biggest problem with Scylla is that, well, she is big. You would have to nerf stats and skills a lot (tbh, and regardless of my opinion on the matter, way beyond what the devs appear to be prepared to do) for her to stand any chance. That’s why I suggest a “vital organ”, so that her size doesn’t count against her survivability.

That is true, and I can confirm that it is so because of my self imposed limitations I simply can’t alpha strike. But when the poor thing spawns right next to my squad (which she shouldn’t be doing anyway), I still kill her first thing and have enough APs to take care of a few of her buddies in the vicinity. It shouldn’t be like that. Of course she shouldn’t spawn next to me, but also she shouldn’t be going down in one turn. She is supposed to be the horror of horrors, the Queen in Aliens…

OK. Maybe you are just a very good player. But I ask myself: What limitations are you doing? Be honest: Do you use the “OP” skills that I have listed in the thread “nerf everything”, even if only once per turn?

Only limitation is each skill can be used only once per turn per soldier, except squad wide skills can be used only once per turn. I’m not using electric reinforcement at all, at least not yet.

But there is a lot of stuff I don’t use because I don’t have it/don’t like it (RB, for example).

I do use damage buffs from third row skills and accuracy buffs from armor.

In this case I had 5 soldiers, only 2 of them level 7. It was one shot with the hellcannon (with strongman perk) at the leg to strip the armor. Then 2 shots with AR (one of the them buffed with a third row profiency). One shot with an Anu pistol (with pistols proficiency). Then 3 hits with Marduk fist (using the 1ap melee attack augment, the soldier is sniper/heavy with the brawler skill). (I know because I kept a savegame and I just restarted and did it again.)

Was it situational? Sure, the thing spawned 5 tiles away from my squad. Would it be harder without the damage/accuracy (from armor) buffs? Of course. And she wasn’t a particularly tough Scylla at that.

But, be that as it may, I just think that is incredibly lame that she dies because I hit one of her legs repeatedly.

Come on, the Eensy Weensy spider can survive more punishment than that…

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dbne3Ix_tJL8&ved=2ahUKEwjH6qaN06foAhWaAmMBHW52AhcQwqsBMAB6BAgKEAQ&usg=AOvVaw0igsheMbrCkPEHzouoph62

Edit: typos

Not bad …
With the problem of turning off the boss spider in just one turn, I’m with you.
I can still see tactics in your approach …

In my opinion:
Your idea: very cool

But: A good alternative solution would be to remove the “OP” skills + adjust the position of the spider.

I think it’s great you can play hero and win with only original gear, etc. There are many of us who have not mastered the game and may never master the game. For us the game seems quit difficult as it is on lower levels. Maybe the Devs should create a super difficult level that no one can win except purely by accident for those who find this game easy.

It is clear that there are many players who have mastered this game. I do not blame them for wanting to be challenged. However, there are also many who find the game hard enough on lower levels (I’m being significantly challenged on veteran). If they make the game tougher for those like me, then I will probably drop the game and perhaps tell others it is too difficult. I think the Devs want lots of people to enjoy the game, not just those gifted. Just my thoughts.

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I will just quote myself from the thread which brought this one about:

I’m all for easy to be easy, hard to be hard, but the problem with Scylla is not just that it is easy to defeat her, it’s just very lame.

For lower difficulty levels her damage output/mobility/armor/health could be reduced, and her appearance made less frequent.

Not everyone is a sadist, who wants everything to be superhard.

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Read the man’s post just above yours - that’s exactly what he just said!