There is a difference between doing nothing and doing one-way communication (giving feedback), while in both cases you “hope for the best” from the devs’ side, one of them has a significantly higher chance (more than zero) to influence things. You might still not get what you want, but at least you tried (and doing that in a respectful, constructive tone helps that, being rude to the people who you just gave your ideas to is less effective).
If in general it is written sharply, then part of this is “bad translation”, but another more Important part is below
From your point of view:
- doing nothing - 0% effective
- doing one-way communication (giving feedback) - more 0% effective
So it is now:
CC - Feedback + Free testing + Suggestions for changes
Community - Feedback + Free Testing via F10 + Suggestions for Change via Canny
+50% efficiency to Devs
(imo, Modding = + 30%, instead of negative)
In response, can the Community count on Live Feedback from Devs?
- Why was Modding promised and ignored now?
- Why are there no Custom Game Options?
Because priorities change all the damn time in software development, and working on new features should be after the current ones are without painful bugs and design errors, as long as they are worked on by the same people.
If your “more 0% effective” means “more than 0%”, then yes, because it has a chance of devs compiling feedback from forums even without you actually knowing about that. But giving feedback doesn’t mean they will act upon it, even if they personally agree with it, the “bigger design/priority goals” can overwrite lots of “little” things.
If the “Community” bought the game as a promise, then they should trust the devs, that’s the reason they bought the game for (mostly fig and pre-launch buyers). You can ofc be disappointed with what they delivered, but you gambled on a promise with the knowledge that it can fail.
If the “community” bought the game as launched, they decided it was worth their money in that state at that time, so every improvement is a boon. Can they hope for an improved game? Of course, that’s why giving your feedback is important, so that the devs know about your problems, which might not be what “most others” have. Yours might still not get “fixed/made better”, but as it is normal on the internet, you can find every possible direction as “recommended one” for any one problem, and resources are finite, they can’t just do everything.
But this is wildly off-topic, again…
Leaving the “Template” here is really no respect. There is too much difference between the abstract “X” and the reasons for ignoring Modding. And the lack of explanations for do Not introduce Custom Game Options. If you don’t give a damn about it (by inserting a formulaic excuse), it’s Not so for many others.
To discuss what is below from your post, I lost the desire.
Be consistent, buy a couple of starships in Star Citizen. What if this is your chance?
Resources are limited and AFAIK either you build from the ground up to support modding, or later it’s difficult to implement. Also, and this especially goes for this
While the game is nowhere approaching a finished state this is a wasted effort.
Edit: doesn’t mean that there might not be modding support and custom options at some point. I’m pretty sure that custom (“second wave”) options will happen eventually, and I hope that so will modding support.
I wrote this to you around a month ago, probably you forgot:
Custom Game Options are the same as any other feature, they need design, development, testing, all the usual stuff, and will not fix buggy gameplay, just make it a differently buggy one. That’s why first they should work on the painful bugs, so that they can then make new stuff.
- Modding is something we want to do, but it is quite a big thing to support, and will depend on funding.
- There will definitely be some modding support but we are not sure to what extent we can support it yet.
It was at the Base. (And every time this promise was confirmed.)
This is your Personal (Comfort) point of view.
- “Most players find the game too difficult / punishing.”
@VOLAND , forcing me to dig out antiquities, you make the question even hotter. You obviously don’t want to hear the answers. And you put future “Agreements” in an immoral position. I won’t ask why.
@Potkeny, maybe you know well how it was there and here. But until the Devs themselves have explained their position / problems and their way forward, this is just speculation.
I think JG’s recent interview at the time of the Steam release will be Snapshot’s last word on modding. I don’t remember the quote exactly, but the gist of it was: “We wanted to include modding support, but unfortunately we have recently discovered that the way we’ve built the game means that it’s not compatible with the Steam Workshop, so sadly we can’t provide Mod Support on Steam.”
Whether you view that as a cock-up or some sort of deep Snapshot conspiracy to prevent modding from happening is entirely up to you, but it seems pretty conclusive to me, and I really can’t be bothered to talk about it any more.
All I will say is it’s a shame, because the modding community is what keeps games like this fresh and alive long after dev support has moved on to other things.
If you remember XCOM, which you are probably addressing to with custom options aka “second wave”, there was not such feature initially. “Second wave” was part of testing tools for game and was implemented later. And there wasn’t Steam workshop support as well.
What I mean isn’t “players must find the way to change game files themselves, because developers don’t allow it”. First of all, the development team should be allowed to finish their work with planned features which were delayed for DLCs, then after them fixing major bugs and rebalancing content, it would be appropriate to add new gameplay options and/or modding tools. As you mentioned it earlier, Gollop kinda proved their wish for this.
In my opinion, developers who release their game half-baked but with mod tools, show disrespect to the playerbase despite talking “Thank you for your support, now you can continue development of our game. We believe in our community, but won’t work on this project anymore. Our best wishes and good luck!”
Probably, for you it seems normal years of free beta, if you do not participate in it.
An example from the gaming industry?
So it was with the PP (maybe you didn’t know?), Only without Modding. (but with Forum/ F10-12 + Canny and CC)
Let there be no “inaccurate quotes”, but there will be an official appeal posted on the forum and social networks. Available for translation. + Explanation about Custom Game Options.
If by ‘Custom Game Options’ you mean Second Wave Options, I have been incessantly banging that drum every chance I get for the last 2 years.
AFAIK, the devs aren’t opposed to it, but they aren’t enthusiastic about it either, and up to now they have had other, higher priorities (like completely replacing the ODI & Pandoran Evo systems, and completely overhauling the game ready for Steam release, and figuring out how to stay above water during a global pandemic before you ask what).
But feel free to knock yerself out. I’d add my name to a call for both of them.
And now you try to use such things as local account data to disprove opposite opinion. How lame it is.
What about examples, you can search them yourself, I think they were mostly games from small studios. Personally I don’t remember now their exact names, because I keep in mind mostly games which are interesting for me. Maybe it was a sandbox RPG or some simulation game? Sorry for not being helpful on this subject.
It’s an off-topic (as well as my whole answer looking at the topic name), but I noticed already, that you like to quote others with pulling words out of context to prove your point of view. The only thing you forgot is that on this forum it’s possible to expand quote and see full text with its original meaning. And this makes your arguments quite questionable.
I expected for you to turn my words against this game. And maybe you forgot or just didn’t pay attention that after the release Phoenix Point wasn’t blamed for having mechanics which weren’t working completely. Some liked it, some didn’t. Except bugs, there were complaints for lack of tutorial and explanations about how game functions, high difficulty, unfriendly interface, game being unbalanced, little content. But mostly game was admitted as finished. Although it was only a base concept and work on development still continues.
Concluding the conversation with you.
I always (try) to keep the context in mind when I quote. And I highlight only the key part, as a guideline when building an answer. The part that got me hooked.
Give examples of my inaccuracy or lies, so as not to be (again) unfounded.
im sorry but “lets just blindly trust the devs because we already gave them our money” has to be the worst excuse you can give to a community.
if you want to look at an example of a cult-liker following that never question the devs look no further than star citizen, with a community that already spent millions of dollars on an empty promise.
be it a small or a big team, devs interactions with their community is one of the most essential parts for a game to success on the long run.
Agreed, which is why SG have the Community Council, the Canny Tool, this forum, two dedicated Discord sites and send out regular questionnaires to all players (though I have to say the questions on the general questionnaires are pretty bland).
I’m told - though I don’t know this from personal experience - that PP has more interaction with its player base than most games of this genre. Certainly from my own personal experience, I can tell you that they do read what we say, listen to what we tell them, and debate what to do about it internally on a regular basis.
Whether their solutions work, or give you what you want, is a moot point and often down to personal preference - but I can certainly guarantee you that the Council does not ‘blindly trust the devs’ and spends most of its time telling them what’s wrong with the game and suggesting ways to fix it.
Michael’s one voice will never replace Devs’ direct communication with the Community. Even if the price is “high”. And some people will consider it a mockery (especially when the Devs themselves are silent or whisper / comment elsewhere).
But they’re not silent. They send out a regular weekly summary of what’s been happening on the Canny Tool, including marking whether an idea is under consideration, being worked on or they consider it completed (which often I and others in the Council would dispute with them - AI improvements being a case in point.
No, they don’t come onto this site and comment on every thread posted, but then I don’t think most people would expect them to.
But to say that they don’t respond to criticism is to be wilfully picky about the way that they choose to respond.