I think it would be foolish to spend time on selecting the exact characteristics of each weapon, for such a problematic development of this game until today.
then whats the point using those ātechnologiesā when you donāt intend to model them based on their base physical characteristics? Gauss weapons need to follow characteristics known for Electromagnetic weapons⦠If not, they why even calling them Gauss??? They could easily just call them ballistic and people would not even see differenceā¦
I wonder if you can find a game with the true characteristics of a Gauss? I think this helped the developers to balance it correctly.
Do you want to help?
asi I said, only thing particularly wrong is the accuracy of those weapons⦠for amount of energy delivered (Damage value) they have way too low accuracy compared to Ballistic weapons⦠If accuracy penalty is due to RECOIL, then amount of energy delivered (DAMAGE) is too low⦠Otherwise, Gauss weapons are typically at least 5x faster than ballistic weapons therefore their accuracy would be a lot better⦠In game terms, if Laser Assault Rifle has accuracy 40, then Gauss Assault Rifle should be around 30 and Ballistic weapon around 20⦠But it doesnt make sense if Ballistic Assault Rifle is more accurate (25 vs 20)
Do you want a story around that theme?
Here we go:
New Jericho has the plans for gauss technologie from the days before the world struggles. Old plans from Wests old company and because most people in Wests āReichā are more gun slinging cowboys than scientists they arenāt able to get this technique to run properly. They mostly fail to get the energy under control and also the target optics are not the best. In the end they get something to work but it was only slightly better than their conventional equivalent.
Would that be ok for you?
But seriously, in a game where pistol bullets cause significantly more damage than rifle bullets, it should be clear that realistic values only play a very minor role. Balance comes first ā¦
Statistics and balance aside, they could stop naming it gauss just because it sounds sci-fi. It is like calling flamethrower a laser.
I donāt think that they name it gauss because it sounds sci-fi.
My guess:
In terms of reality, it should be very important that the background story is as logical as possible. Since both NJās and Synedrionās weapons are advancements from our time, there arenāt really many alternatives for modern weapon technology today. Gauss and laser are simply the logical choice and not even fiction.
Not saying its a fiction, but gauss technology has nothing in common with gauss weaponry in PP. And thatās the source of the issie (yet still very tiny tiny minor issue, because I dont care much about it): we know what it is, we know how it is supposed to work and thats why we know Gauss in PP is just a fancy, meaningless scifi name for a weapon class.
Or, yāknow, the NJ gauss tech is essentially similar to the concept of caseless ammunition. No need for propellant, lower ammunition weight per round, but otherwise similar performance to ballistic. Higher calibre and less precision needed in ammunition profile (assuming theyāre coilguns since that would make more sense).
Rushed production and less need for precision probably results in poor ballistic performance, but the velocity would make up for it.
That or their āGaussā weapons are electromagnetically-assisted electrochemical-propellant caseless weapons with the coils boosting the round instead of providing all the acceleration. Best of both worlds. Lower battery usage per shot, lower ammunition weight and not as reliant on a clean burn of the propellant.
let me refrain - if you have a projectile that is 4-10x faster, then its accuracy will be always better than for the slower projectile⦠because you hit your target instantly (at normal combat ranges) therefore you mitigate possible enemy movement during time projectile flies to target⦠we are talking about shooting at 150-300m with weapon that has muzzle velocity of 2000-5000m/s vs weapon with muzzle velocity of 700-900m/s⦠there would be no bullet drop due to gravity, dispersion in terms of mm etc⦠it would hit exactly the spot where you aim itā¦
long story short, Gauss weapons in Phoenix Point are not Gauss weapons⦠they have fire animation that suppose to look like Gauss weapon firing, but its effect on target and accuracy is complete BS.
But here we have not more than 70 m. So realistically they should be quite similar⦠still game requires something else.
Btw out of curiosity. What would you say if Bulldog had lower damage than Ares, and Deimos would have even lower value? Bulldog would have nice piercing value, and Deimos even higher? Also Bulldog would have bigger burst than Ares and Deimos even 2 times larger than Ares? About accuracy Bulldog would still had lower value than Ares but they are comparable, while Deimos still outperforms them.
I wonāt put values here, because I donāt want to spoil my balance ideas, until I will deal with all weapons. Iām still not positive for some of heavy weapons and 2 sniper rifles, so still my values my change slightly.
In my personal files, i had Bulldog with 2 round burst, but doubled damage(80). Accuracy boosted to 30. For Deimos, i had 9 round burst, reduced damage to 20 (pulse laser) but 1 shred. (so 9 per shot)
This way, each weapon is very different, and requires different approach. Gauss is good at dealing damage directly, Laser deals damage over time⦠Ballistic are in the middle.
With Laser, you are able to hit certain parts with multiple shots due to accuracy, so low damage is not that problematic as you will always aim at most vulnerable part, and 9 shred means you can chip through armor eventually⦠With Gauss, you deal direct damage through armor, but 2 round burst means you deal less damage overall (iām considering changing it to 2x75 to make it more profound)
One could argue high velocity projectile tends to overpenetrate the target, and not create large wound channel⦠anyway, with hypervelocity projectiles there is much higher hydrostatic shock, which means such projectiles are a lot more lethal to living creatures. (hydrostatic shock was something early 5.56 weapons benefited from ,but when weapons got shorter barrel, projectiles lost its intended speed, losing its effectivity⦠thats why 5.56 is no longer considered adequate today)
I would agree if there would be only assault rifles available. But how would you change Deceptor if it is same tech and similar bullets without overpowering it? It is machine gun after all. Would you reduce size of burst to 6 bullets only and increase shred to 4 to keep the outcome of that gun?
yes, thats exactly what i did. its 6 round burst weapon with increased damage and shred per projectile.
If that fits you. For me it is not enough bullets peppering the area. For me machine gun should at least fire 8 or 10 rounds in one shot.
Gauss rifle = Coilgun.
In 2018, a Los Angeles-based company Arcflash Labs offered the first coilgun for sale to the general public. It fired 6-gram steel slugs at 45 m/s with a muzzle energy of approximately 5 joules.
45m/s does not equal 2000-5000m/s.
Clearly the velocity is directly related to how much power is used.
As these are mobile weapons and the users arenāt wearing power packs on their backs, I would argue that the velocity of these weapons are closer to the realms of reality. Perhaps they are only achieving a muzzle velocity of around, I donāt know⦠33% faster than the Phoenix Point assault rifles. Not to mention, they are probably cumbersome and unwieldy and harder to control (mass still exists and will try to push the weapon back when the projectile goes forwards).
And, above all else⦠remember⦠this is a game. They didnāt design and build these weapons in real life and then test them to figure the numbers. It isnāt broken, because itās not real.
Just throwing in my 2 cents here, but an argument can also be made in ballistics and aerodynamics, not just weapons technology. It took us almost 300 years to get the ideas of shaping bullets and rifling all down to where it is now for modern firearms, and every time you change the speed or size of a projectile enough the entire ballistics have to be redone. So itās entirely possible that the gauss guns are gauss, but that NJ just hasnāt nailed down exactly how to shape the actual rounds or barrelsā¦
thats bb-gun, not a weapon⦠5 joules will do nothing to anything⦠45m/s? air-pressurized rifles do such speed⦠hell, you can get such speed with bow and arrow⦠even more with 20gram arrows you can easily get 50-60m/s
Yes. But thatās my point. Itās still a gauss gun. Muzzle velocity isnāt determined by the name (eg: āGauss Gunā does not automatically equal 2000-5000m/s) and itās set by the manufacturer.