Syneidron accuracy is off the scale

Their assults just keep headshoting from the entire map length all the time. Their accuracy is just too ridicolous. This is not how assult rifles work.


congratulations, this is the first ever complaint I read about assault rifles used by a human faction being a problem. (this is notably different then people being mauled by return fire from new jericho bulldog-50’s)

realistically, AR’s are between marksman rifles and sub-machineguns, they are very accurate and more then able to hit targets within sight. in this game however they most certainly don’t function like that. and tend to have an accuracy closer to that of a hunting shotgun. now we are past the realism part…lets get to the game.

AR’s in this game fire in a burst of 4-6 shots, the synedrion fires a 6-shot burst. synedrion is the most accurate faction, their assault rifle has this games equivalent of accuracy (effective range) at 40-42 tiles. the AI always fires center mass at what they can see…ironically when using low cover, this is often the head.

maps vary in size…but most are 100 tiles or more on 1 side.

effective range means that a completely exposed humanoid will be hit about 50% of the time at that range. smaller targets, like humans in cover or specific limbs are less likely to get hit. to make the equation easier lets say the head is roughly a quarter of the models surface “half” the size of the entire model. this isn’t true as a head is smaller but again… it makes the math easier

this would mean that at 100 tiles a synedrion assault would have slightly less then 12.5% chance of hitting the head once (half of 50 because of range, half of that again because of target size). with 6 bullets there is a significant chance of them hitting 1 bullet on that model. with significant chance being close to 50% if you do the math…you will notice it will be less

so for every 2 long range burst done by a lucky synedrion assault…1 bullet will nick your helmet, that will reduce the damage to anywhere between 16 to 0. now if you where not wearing a helmet they would need 4 hits, aka 4 non-stop cross map firing assaults to even out with a medkit…

somehow I’m not impressed by the cross map firing capabilities of the assault rifle equipped AI. note they will hit by volume of fire, but the damage per shot is anemic.

AI must have some additional bonus to accuracy because believe me their assult rifles hit like crazy. Considering that there are 4-6 assults and each hit they could outright kill one soldier from the full map length.

As for return fire I don’t have issue with it against me. I have issues that why it is like 25% mine procing it.

Their accuracy and damage max the best snipers I’ve got. Unbelievable that they can head shot a unit more than 40 tiles away. Not once but time after time. I want that kind of accuracy and damage with my assault rifles. Please give it to me as well, or fix this oversight.

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They aim at less armored body parts from those visible to them. :wink:

Sounds like Synedrion. IIRC there should be an accuracy rating in their unit card, and Syn assault armour has bonus accuracy.
Plus the long ranged rifle (better shot grouping) and its not surprising. The one time I’ve fought them (during a Pure timed mission) 2 snipers and an assault demolished the Pure. I only fought one Pure and spent more time trying to make sure the Syn snipers couldn’t get a bead.
Hid everyone in a building and used shotguns.

That said, I have noticed some odd things. Like Return Fire from my assault with a Bulldog all hitting a Triton. He couldn’t do even half as good on my orders. Target about 15 tiles away, up a floor. 4 perfect bursts, then missed with half the rounds on my turn. Helcannon RF has been good too.

Agreed that with a sniper rifle they can be accurate across the map. But I had one with an assault rifle do this time after time. Even my best snipers with the longest range weapon couldn’t touch him.

Somehow I doubt that Synedrion Assaults have any invisible buff on their accuracy, but of course I don’t know for sure.

Here a list of what can be included without any hidden buff:

  • The Synedrion assault rifle, the Daimos, has a basic accuracy of 41
  • The Synedrion assault armor has a boost to the accuracy of about 15-20% in total (I can not say exactly, no access to the game, I assume 15% for calculation, see below)
  • Maybe these Synedrion assaults have the assault rifle skill (Trooper?), which gives not only 20% boost to the damage but also a further 20% to the accuracy
  • It is also possible that these assaults also have the general accuracy skill (name? The one with + 20% accuracy and -10% damage))

Together this would result in 41 + 6.1(armor) + 8.2(AR skill) + 8.2(accuracy skill) = 63.5, which is significantly more accurate than the base accuracy of all sniper rifles with the exception of the Phytagoras from Synedrion. If you then add the fact that you have a burst with 6 bullets, it can be explained that about 3 of them hit you fairly reliably over half of the map.

This is also the reason why I like the Daimos very much, especially as a secondary weapon for a sniper if he has the assault rifle perk or dualclassed to assault. If the armor of the opponent is not relevant (explosives, armor break, breakthrough …), for me it is the better choice compared to the NJ assault rifles, even the Piranha. Their accuracy and thus their hit reliability is simply unmatched in their class + 2 more bullets per burst, also nice for zerker with armor break or heavy with rageburst.

Edit: Accuracy is synonymous with range throughout the whole text above.

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if i remember correctly Deimos is Laser Assault Rifle… its normal its so accurate…
What doesnt make sense, is AR-50, which is supposed to be Gauss Assault Rifle, yet it has accuracy worse than ordinary ballistic rifle… Gauss projectiles are several times faster than ordinary rounds, therefore it has a lot flatter trajectory, and therefore should be more accurate…

So in terms of Phoenix Point game, it should be Laser > Gauss >> Ballistic in terms of accuracy


I suppose accuracy it is more case of weapon recoil than trajectory of projectile. :slight_smile:

And maybe NJ scientist are not the best to get this damned recoil under control … :grin:

that would be maybe true for Assault Rifles which fire in bursts (but not for first shot), but is completely wrong for single shot weapons like Sniper Rifles.

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So gauss weapon is not really handy and it is harder to aim with it. :slight_smile:

no, Gauss recoils same way as ballistic weapons… but it doesnt mean its unusable… it just recoils same way… it still achieves a lot flatter trajectory and it practically hits the target instantly in usual combat ranges for infantry weapons…


When i’m thiking about it - Gauss weapons would burst a bit differently than ballistic weapons… they would most likely shoot multiple projectiles within same charge(while with ballistic weapons you have powder per projectile)… so again, recoil would not impact them at the time they leave the weapon… but soldier would feel it afterwards…

and regarding power of that recoil - it depends on how big projectile you are firing… Gauss weapons are intended to fire smaller projectiles at a lot higher speed, even few gram pellet would get insane amount of kinetic energy on target ( KE on target at the point of impact) yet that energy would be comparable to ballistic weapon firing larger (and heavier) projectile…

But, when im looking at game stats, Gauss weapons deal just 33% more damage compared to Ballistic weapons, which means actual energy delivered is not that much higher than with ballistic rifle…

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And how will we measure the parameters of a laser weapon?

Thats minor issue to me, but issue nontheless. I don’t care about realism much, but I don’t like when game designer doesn’t do the homework and is like “gauss sound scifi, lets give it a bit of bonus damage but high recoil” or something. I mean, geez, we have internet and shitload of literature. It’s like 5 minutes to figure out it doesn’t work this way and another 5 miutes to find better explanation :stuck_out_tongue:

It all depends on your intellectual baggage and this is not 5+5 minutes at all.

On first though it’s easy to say that. But when you need to balance weapons while having only few parameters (damage, size of burst, range, ammo capacity) it is not so simple. At least I think that devs had such restrictions on the beginning. Now we see that we have also shred, penetration, AP cost available so we can play with all properties.

but its their design… its not like they had to adapt to something somebody forced them to…

Yes, but they could do it more realistic and unbalanced, or just alter some values from standard weapon and call it new tech. In the way I would balance Assault Rifles Bulldog would still be far from specs it probably should have. :slight_smile: