Shouldn't alien bases be treated as night environment?

Phoenix Point Game Feedback
41

That depends on your definition of fun.

Personally, I think you should be getting shot at by hidden enemies if you’re invading an alien cave system, and my fondest memories of the XCOM games comes from those missions where you were cautiously advancing with a sense that anything could come at you at any moment - the Great Nantucket Whale Disaster was a perfect example of one such: I was so wound up by the time I got to the ship, it was a relief to discover it was just an infinitely spawning Chryssalid nest.

And you can automatically generate light to the radius of your Perception range. So you don’t have to spend APs on it at all.

Also, whether you dismiss them as ‘detection mechanics’ or see them as a perception issue, limiting the distance you can see on maps would go some way towards limiting the vast movement and firing distances that you (quit rightly) see as main problem with this game.

Forget darkness for a moment. For the game to have suspense, there has to be some kind of Fog of War, with a sense of unknown dangers lurking round the corner. Atmo, there is none. With the occasional exception of a hidden Chiron at the back of the map, you pretty much know everything that’s on the map by Turn 2, and then all you’re doing is planning how to take it out in the minimum number of moves with the fewest casualties possible. An interesting mental exercise, but hardly an experience of creeping Lovecraftian horror… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

1 Like
42

Well, as I said, after Leviathan detection is harder, and when playing without extreme mobility, and some bad starting deployments aside, you can’t spot more than 1/4 - 1/3 of the enemies on the first turn without getting seriously exposed. And sometimes you do get shot by enemies you can’t see - like Tritons and Chirons. One question is: how fun would it be if more enemies were doing this more often?

Of course there are many people who don’t even like Tritons and Chirons doing that right now (which is why Firaxis avoids enemies that can attack you while hidden like an underwater level in a 90s FPS). As to me, I do like it, because that’s their strength and it’s a reaction to something I do, but I don’t want enemies to do this as a rule.

For example, a Triton with an echo head and pain chamaleon can shoot without being revealed. I know that if I see one of those SOBs I have to kill it, or disable it, or leave it unmolested for now, because just grazing it can put me a in world of hurt. Fair enough - I made a mistake, or a gamble that didn’t pay off.

You can say, “well, how about if they shoot they get revealed, but before that they stay hidden”, and there, again, if there are specific enemies/situations where that happens and it has to do with some relevant choice I make, great, bring it on. But it has to be some relevant choice, not “hey, you run too much, and I don’t want you to. I want you to take it slow to create a sense of tension, suspense and foreboding”.

For example, the Pandoran “security systems” would be a good opportunity for something like that. Put some hidden eggs/cacooned Arthrons somewhere on the map “connected” to the Sentinels (like the eggs in the Nests right now, but at longer distances and hidden).

Sorry, this is getting too long, but I also wanted to say something about this

Of course this is a heavily scripted level, but what made it great can be made into a procedurally generated mission type. Start with a map with few, or no enemies, but with one event trigger that calls in massive enemy reinforcements/wakes up dormant enemies, and another event trigger that appears 1-3 turns later to stop it.

43

Part of the problem is due to the small map size for most missions. The larger maps and nests have plenty FoW.

44

I missed something? What you mean?

45

There were changes to stealth. One was that any character is detected regardless of stealth rating within 5 tiles unless using pain chamaleon or vanish. However, there were also changes to make enemies in general less detectable.

I don’t know if it has to do with adjustment to stealth rating, or more restrictive LOS rules, or something else, but it is noticeable. Btw, after Leviathan you can see a tick up in complaints about dash halting when detecting an enemy within 5 tiles, and that’s because detection at longer range became less common, thus it is more often that an enemy will be detected during a dash move.

46

Interesting. There are no changes in perception and stealth base values. So probably some alien skills generate more stealth or as you said some rules have changed…

I haven’t noticed but I don’t follow each case. I wonder if all those cases are related to Tritons or any other alien or enemy.