Shouldn't alien bases be treated as night environment?

I wonder about wonderful perception of my soldiers in alien nests/lairs/citadels. It is interesting that they can spot enemies almost at the end of the map like during the daytime.

Shouldn’t those missions behave like night time missions?

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I don`t want to encounter a Scylla in the darkness around the corner. My blood pressure is high enough, when I play PP :slight_smile:

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I think the perception is clearly overestimated. In my opinion, the atmosphere (especially the horror) suffers because everything is visible from the start.
On the other hand, it helps tremendously to plan and execute the “alpha strike”. So if “alpha strike” was not an accident, but wanted, it fits perfectly into the concept. (forgive me the sarcasm)

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It is hard enough at present to sort these locations out, so no… But there is FOW on the maps anyway! Plus when your in a nest/lair they just pop up from rocks anyway. You do need to have some reference to move forward. If they made this dark I would just stop playing it all together right now with the unbalancing the way it is to add to the stress. I have noticed a theme in all your posts… Nothing seems to be hard enough for you? Your always advocating the hardest most painful way to do things, why is that? If it can be made more difficult you seem to want it?

I don’t want to make things more difficult, just different.

If alien bases would behave like dark places there:

  • could be less enemies,
  • could be also beacons/flares thrown (or shot from some specialized equipment like drones) which would help make caves more welcoming and every faction would be proficient with them,
  • Synedrion could even have flashing drones designed to light up such places like caves (that would require new AI for drones as they would need to relocate and place themselves with proper distances from each other but it is achievable - or player would just give them orders what region to cover and AI of drones would do the job).

That would give the mood of creepy place where we go cautiously like in the movie Alien. Currently we go there like on some firing range and we sprint through the place like it would be some dragon’s lair with his treasure, but without a dragon.

Other changes suggested by others:

  • you need to evacuate after dealing with main objective
  • bring explosives to collapse spawn points for aliens

If alien bases would behave like dark places there

  • could be less enemies,

And for that I would implement change that alien bases have their own strength (like havens) - just hidden from the player (at least until some fancy research). When alien base throws an attack on a haven, its strength drops down by half and that is right moment to attack it. So after successful haven defence you go there and it is a lot easier mission. When you try to assault it when it is at full strength then it becomes extreme mission. :slight_smile:

More decision, more planning, more tactical choices and equipment. That would be great!


That is the mother of all problems with this game.
The game is unfair on both sides!
Those who have not yet discovered the unfair methods on the player side feel overwhelmed against the unfair opponents. On the other hand, like me @Yokes and a lot of others here, who know the unfair methods (player side) very well, feel totally underwhelmed. Many adhere to self-made rules so that the game corresponds to the genre “Taktik” to some extent.

Actually I’m not so great and don’t feel underwhelmed. :smiley: But I also impose self-restrictions similar to @VOLAND and @MichaelIgnotus and others. I just restrain myself right now from judging if game is right-paced or mostly-balanced (even if both sides are overpowered).

I think this is the answer and I have said it many times before and got flamed! If you don’t like a skill because it is an exploit etc… then just limit it on your part! For those who don’t want to there is the choice and this is what makes it fair, everyone gets to enjoy the game they the way they like! If you start IMPOSING rules that force it to be more difficult or play a certain way then that is just catering to one group. The other group will just leave… It really is that simple. So a balance in my mind is exactly what you said self-made rules… And for other items maybe the option to turn it off and on in the settings would work.?

I completely understand you. That is why I propose solutions to not increase difficulty but make game more tactical and less arcade.

Nobody wants to punish the players who have their difficulties even more, take something away or even stress them out. You have to read what everyone ALWAYS says again: it’s about banishing the unfair methods for BOTH sides. Just so that EVERYONE can enjoy the game.

That is exactly the key point.

It all sounds damn cool!

Just the idea knocks me out. This would make PP stand out clearly from other titles in this genre (in addition to the free aim).


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Before I make my statement, please take to consider that I almost on your side when it comes to “balance” the often called OP abilities on the player side.
BUT, you also have to consider, that there are many players out, that like these abilities and all the posibilities and don’t want to get them nerfed in any way even if you also nerf the other side.

An yes, in all the threads we are discussing to “balance” all the OP things on player side we almost write that this will only work when the other side is also are going somewhat down, that’s exactly what “balance” means.
BUT, we discuss the player abilities in almost every detail and the other side only somewhat in little depth, more shallow. I can understand that some players are not very convinced with our view of the problem, even more when they have many troubles with the game as it currently is regardless of all the OP possibilities we see and can use or not.

Probably there are players out that like the arcade style?
Some of the mentioned solutions that go this way, if they are not optional, have the danger that a part of the players will completely leave the game.
More optional settings are in my opinion the best way to go.

BUT, before all of that, I personally think they have to balance all the sometimes really ridiculous and probably buggy things to make the game easier for all players (we can restrict our self, they don’t have any option to have fun with the game as it is):

  • Explosives/Acid, additionally maybe not giving any launcher to Arthrons from the start on, let this be an evolution.
  • Lairs, and sometimes also Nests in the beginning are pretty difficult, Citadels way to easy.
  • Chirons, explicitly bombard and acid. This could be going OK if the first point was fixed … maybe
  • Sirens, we all know the problems with them (yes, we almost can handle them, but many others can’t)

I guess, changing these things together with any of the mentioned “balancing” would end in a much more unbalanced state. So let the devs first fix all these things out, then we look how it worked and after that we can discuss any really OP thing, that is OP for ALL players.

Or open the game for modders, THAT would be my favorite solution.

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Self restraint can’t be the answer to exploits… To play a game with one hand tied to a foot it takes knowing the game very well, being a fan, wanting the game to be all it can be, and trusting that it will one day…

In other words, those of us who are playing with self restraint are relatively few and only because we trust that one day we won’t have to, and that in the meantime we can help the devs with our feedback.

It has to be gradually and both things at the same time. The problem with exploits for players is that they obscure the real difficulty of the game, so it’s very hard to know if the game is easy, or hard enough when it’s up to the player to turn any extreme encounter into a cakewalk.

But regarding the specific issues you mention

Fix the explosions bug and I’m pretty sure Arthron’s basic nade is not going to be a problem. And the acid balancing is in process.

Lairs are being reworked. I have not read any complaints about nests lately…

Yep, acid and explosives need fixing… And beyond that the detection mechanics need to be clarified and made more transparent.

They are going to be capped at 2 per mission (I assume on veteran. Maybe more at higher difficulties?)

Here is the problem I see, we can turn any extreme encounter into a cakewalk, obviously many other players can’t. If you balance gradually and both things together you could end at the same point that many players aren’t able to have fun with the game (again, they have no chance, we can at least restrict our self).

I know that they are working on almost any of my mentioned problems, but I think we should wait until this is done and then we should take a fair look again on the whole balancing.

They should really open the game for more modding, this way we can do all these things, without permanently demand for any global balance overhaul from the devs.

Yes and that is their right!
A counter question: Was the game advertised as a tactical game (rather deeper XCOM with horror factor) or as an arcade turn base game with magic superheroes?

You worry about the players who want arcade game. What about the other side? FiraXCOM has got a huge range of players without arcade because players who buy a tactical game also want tactics … just my opinion.

Should you drop arcade players? No. For this you can build an arcade mode and not the other way around! I am convinced that such a mistake kills the game and also the sale.

Back to the topic: don’t you think that many trailers and interviews have brought the horror factor to the fore as a special feature? Now the implementation should fail because arcade players prefer to see everything right from the start so that their nuclear super weapons can really hit in the first round? Today I had a portion of sarcasm for breakfast … I don’t want to attack anyone :wink:


Yes …
I don’t think anyone planned to …
All the new suggestions e.g. I guess in this thread in my (class-related atrribute) in @VOLANDs (pace in tact. battles) are based on the assumption that certain balance changes are assumed or at least expected.

Matter of opinion, I really like FiraXCom, both parts, but I also don’t like them because they introduce many “arcade” parts in this type of game like the 2-actionpoint-system, classes, skills, pods and their sequential activation, alpha striking these pods, graphical gimmics, superhero abilities …

So tactical turn based games shouldn’t be for them, I guess? Or arcade playstyle can be default option on the lowest difficulty. But for those who want challenge such option should be disabled on all other difficulties.

I see @walan is less restrictive about the base of players.

Hmmm … you said:

And I would say let the mix arcade/tactical as it is or improve it a way that don’t bother almost any side of players.
Is the game as it is to much arcade?
Not for me, if the balancing goes the right way then I’m fine with the concept as it is.

From mid game to the end … simply yes

To be honest, exactly like FiraXCom in my opinion :stuck_out_tongue:

Now seriously, that’s why I would say let’s not change the whole game into a different direction but let’s try to balance it in a way, that the mid to end game is almost the same feeling as the start. That is the part, that I almost enjoy the most in this game.

Yes, it was also a weak point.
Was this weak point the guarantee for great success?

What should PP learn from this?

Without going into details now … in XCOM the opponents mostly could not destroy me in the first round and neither could I.
It was true that the best tactic was to shoot a pod as quickly as possible. Nevertheless, the most memorable scenarios were those where the second pod was (accidentally) activated and then Ahhhh “alpha strike” was not possible. The good thing about PP, they didn’t copy this artificial pod system, a very good decision …