Shouldn't alien bases be treated as night environment?

I think perhaps not. The players who currently find the game too difficult don’t know the exploits, so removing the exploits and smoothing out the difficulty should result in a net reduction of difficulty for them.

Seriously? No, not the the whole mission but podwise? The base system is almost the same, alpha strike the pod or they destroy you.

That is not true at all, because even with activating a second pod, alpha striking both pods IS the solution and it is almost possible, but you have to be more careful. Is that more tactical?

Which is why most of us who complain about the OP nature of Squad skill combos also keep calling for the difficulty settings to take into account the needs of the other players.

Easy should be easy. There should be an Arcade Mode - or an option NOT to limit Squad skills. The number (and type) of Chirons & Sirens should be limited on non-Heroic or Legendary modes.

I wouldn’t opt to play the game like this, but I have nothing against other players who like it that way.

But, to answer @Spagetman43’s assertion:

That works the other way too. This game was advertised as a ‘spiritual successor to X-Com’, with ‘Alien Evolution’ that responded to our tactics and a suspensful, horror theme. That was music to the ears of old-school X-Com players: finally they were going to get a game that was as hard and unforgiving as the original X-Com, which was one of its great selling-points back in the day.

At present, Phoenix Point is none of these things, but it has the great potential to be so - and I know that, because by obeying a few self-imposed rules, the game almost but not quite gets there for me.

However if, ultimately, this game imposes unlimited superheroes that can cheese most scenarios in a couple of turns onto me, then I’ll be in the group that ‘just leaves’ - along with most of JG’s original X-Com fan base. We’ll gravitate to XCOM Chimaera, or whatever the next-gen of TBS that learns from the failed PP experiment turns out to be.

I don’t want to. I want to help turn this game into all it could be - and I want to enable players like you to have the experience you want as well. But this is a 2-way street, and forcing me to tie one hand behind my back just to get this game to work properly is not a viable long-term solution.

Maybe, in the long-term, there will be mods that allow both of us to get what we want - but right now, all we have is whatever the devs opt to give us.

I get flamed as much as you do for my stance. Live with it: that’s the price you pay for being active on a forum such as this. But I have to say, mate, the difference is I seem to appreciate that there are 2 sides to this argument, not just mine.

1 Like

I don’t want to argue with you about this because it will take a lot of time for us both and will not help :wink:
Rather answer the questions I asked you earlier

Don’t ask that question!

Because the obvious answer is: ‘Make the game more like Fortnite.’ :scream:

Oh Nooooooo :laughing: too late the answer is on the way

Ok, let’s get out of this theme :wink:

For me it seems that this “weak point” wasn’t a real issue, both parts of the game were a great success.

PP can learn of it, that they have to look on all sides of this medal and I personally think they do so. I can’t see a point from them that they want to turn it into a more old fashion like original XCom style that some of us really wish to have, included myself. I personally think the time is over for such a more deep tactical game. And especially FXCom shows that, because … tada … their mix of arcade/tactical was a great success.

Edit:

:laughing:
Nonono, THAT would be a big mistake, really … REALLY!!!111!!
:wink:

I have suggested a few times that the chests found in the missions should contain AWESOME weapons and hats. But you have to pay first to see what’s inside. The challenge would be to get the exact hat you want, and not one you already have.

At the beginning of the game, both are mostly tactical.
If we only look at the time from mid game to the end, FiraXCOM would be more of 50% tactical and 50% arcade (without WOTC). In my opinion PP is now 20% tactical / 80% arcade

Let’s put it another way: In XCOM 2 I have about 800 hours. And I definitely didn’t do that because of the better presenation :wink:
In PP I have about 80 h and for more I just miss the tactics, sorry …

I would not go this way because I think it is mostly subjective what and how much is arcade or tactical.

I have 1500 hours in XCom 2 (mostly with WOTC) and aroud 800 hours in PP.
I personally see no reason to go back to FXCom, because, for me personally, I have more fun with PP, even in its current state.

Subjective :wink:

Nevertheless XCOM has night missions and sometimes that creepy mood. Phoenix Point hardly does that. So things should change to make Phoenix Point better.

3 Likes

What bring us back to topic :slight_smile:

I’m personally with you, I would like to see these base mission as night environment and for all who are skeptic about that, I think this would be not more difficult, because the enemies have the same disadvantages as the player.

To get back on topic, about darkness in PP.

The first issue I see is that in PP accuracy = weapon range, and it can’t be dynamically changed, so darkness can only have an impact on perception.

The second issue is that making combat in the dark interesting, rather than just annoying, is quite hard, which is why Firaxis opted for a purely cosmetic take on it (or was there something with street lights? I can’t remember tbh)

You’re probably thinking of the security towers which would break your concealment if you got within range in XCOM 2. You’re correct in that lighting was cosmetic only.

So give each Squaddie their own personal Perception Bubble, which travels around with them. The only part(s) of the map which are illuminated are within those Perception Bubbles. The rest id in darkness.

You could even do that with Day Missions, doubling or tripling the radius of the Perception Bubble and blurring out the rest of the map.

2 Likes

:joy: Couldn’t resist it. :rofl:

Actually, a more serious answer would be: give us Second Wave Options at the start of each new game. That way, @walan & I can turn Limited Skill Use to ‘ON’ and @Spagetman43 can turn it to ‘OFF’ and everyone is happy.

3 Likes

Horror mode

Exactly - switch it ‘ON’ or ‘OFF’ according to your preferences in the Second Wave Options ;0)

And that is enough. All places considered as dark could have -50% perception modifier so perception would drop to 12.5 tiles. Those lit up (at source of light and at adjacent squares) won’t have that penalty.

For good light sources at range of:

  • 2 tiles can be -10% penalty,
  • 3 tiles -30% penalty,
  • 4 tiles full penalty.

For poor light sources there can be:

  • at 2 tiles -30%,
  • at 3 tiles full penalty.

So enemy standing in those places of dark would stay unspotted. BUT…

Firing a weapon should be considered as source of light so MG Arthrons and all Tritons wielding gunpowder guns (laser, gauss and crossbows doesn’t count) would be spotted immediately. But they still can come close unspotted before they open fire.

There would be also equipment to negate perception penalty.

If you can’t spot enemy, then you can’t shoot him. No accuracy penalty is needed.

It becomes a detection issue then, and down that path lies (mostly) annoyance. Enemies that only get revealed (or not) when they shoot at you, constant expenditure of time units to create sources of light…

I know it all sounds very tactical but in practice it’s not about choice, but rather about following a protocol or a routine to minimize risk.

IMO, for darkness to be fun, there has to be an interaction between different mechanics. e.g. Enemies, weapons, soldiers, environments, etc. that change their behavior at night/day, in light/dark, with much less focus on detection.

@MichaelIgnotus I’m all for terror and suspense. It’s just that IMO burdening detection mechanics with creating them is the wrong way to go about it.

Firaxis did a pretty good job with Chryssalids in that regard, I think.

PP has some scary monsters… (at least until you learn how to deal with them). Lovecraftian horror is not so much about imagining what lurks and hisses in the shadows, but of facing the strange and the inexplicable (which in PP takes many forms… The double damage from explosives and acid showers being currently on the forefront of the terrifyingly inescrutable phenomena :wink:).