Realtime vs. Turn-based


#1

Hello,
why dont you consider realtime combats? In X-Com Apocalypse it was very very fun!
Turnbased battles are very slow and realtime was very dense. Stop-play-Stop-play… there is nothing wrong with that?


#2

But it needs development resources, and PP was designed with turn-based combat in mind.
I don’t believe that the combat PP has now could work with any kind of real-time setup (or you would pause all the time to aim/use skill/etc., effectively making it turn-based, with the 10+ soldiers we can command), and redesigning that would just mean it’s not PP anymore, but a different game.

There is nothing wrong with real-time games, PP (as designed) is just not a good candidate for that in my opinion.


#3

Dear God, please no!
One of the great selling points for me of XCOM and PP is the turn-based nature of the game, which gives you time to think and formulate a strategy, rather than desperately reacting all the time.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved playing Mass Effect, for instance. But that’s not what I’m looking for in PP/XCOM. The beauty of these games is that they are Squad Leader with added Command & Control, and you can play them like a moving boardgame.


#4

Did u ever play X-com apocalypse? It has nothing to do with MassEffect. Imagine PP only in real time…nothing else is different. Of course it is a personal decision and i respect that. Apocalypse was not about just reacting. It had its own strategy.


#5

At this point in development, can’t even imagine the nightmare it would be to change all the systems to fit real time strategy. It’s a decision the developers make beginning development, and trusting their instincts and talent, see no reason to change it. For me, this question is as strange to ask as “Why not make it an action game?”.

Not that there’s anything wrong with RTS. Warcraft 3 is being remade as Reforged, and I couldn’t be happier with that. 2019 I’ll have both PP and WC3: R.


#6

It was fun, but not really playable. Khm, name of genre is turn based strategy. And its far more strategy then most of “real time” “strategies”.


#7

I agree with the original poster: I enjoyed the UFO: After-series that featured real time combat. However, devising an AI that can match up against a human in real time combat and take into account terrain, stealth, etc was really tough, at least when the games were written, so by the end game you were just owning the AI based on its bad tactical choices. Turned based systems seem to allow the AI to make more comparable choices, and so I see why designers skew to it even though the basic tech for real time has existed since 2000 at least.


#8

Look:
Turn based strategies came first, e.g. Vulcan on Spectrum and Tobruk on C64. With Laser Squad they became squad based and with Civilization and Populous etc. they became Sim-Civ or something (city, species…). A bit oversimplification, but so. These are pure blood strategies.

Real time strategies came with Dune2 and were most famous for Command and Conquer and Starcraft series. They are … fun and nice for deathmatches … but never had so many strategic elements.

Most of the PP fun would simply be lost.


#9

Aftershock, Aftermath, and Afterlight all are real-time XCOM derivatives. Real time isn’t just about death matches.


#10

I was overall not satisfied with that line of XCom spiritual successors, coming from Bohemian games/Altar games and similar. Fairly, they filled the void, but felt bleaky and I was instantly … turned down. After-light I have tried.

To me, Laser Squad/Xcom is all about turn based strategy that offers more options and better exploit of squad based tactics. Thus line is LS - Sabre Team - Xcom 1994 - Terror from Deep - Apocalypse - Faxis/Faxis2 - PP, and there is no “real time space” there.

However, I am willing to hear on how real time experience was incorporated in Xcom type of game, and how do you feel it “better then turn based”


#11

What? Xcom apocalyse battles were real time. How can you put Apocalypse into turnbased combat? I have used my x386 or x486 i cant remember :slight_smile: the AI was not very clever you are right. But it was not also not very clever in terror from deep in comparison to latest XCOM, since the HW power has n.th times better. So this shows only one thing, today a real time XCOM with complex AI can be made. e.g. The player stops the game in Apocalypse and changes tactics based on enemy. So by default this timeslot is also valid for the PC. PC can also use it for counter tactics, if programmed properly.

And about my experience in that kind of realtime in XCOM: as far as i remember, i put my men behind walls, the aliens were patrolling around and i was ambushing them or the aliens were strorming i was building a wall of soldiers (some on knees in the first row, some stanging up, some lying on the gound, so when an alien has entered the room i was bursting fire upon it! :smiley: It was very very fun. So when an alien was detected i stopped the game and applied different tactics.

Basically the best thing is, like in a real time battle all soldiers or aliens shoot each other at the same time (imaine yourself a starwars battle with 4-6 soldiers against 10-16 aliens, as far as i can rememer in XCOM-apocl.). This you can not experience in a turnbased game. I hope these are enough for an explanation.

The trick behind was (i think), They had same this cube sliced maps. So the AI was always deciding as it did in turn based but in real time continuously. Just watch an XCOM-apocaly. in-play video, you will understand what i mean.

Eventhough PP is not real time, it looks promising and i would happily play it. I just want to get this feeling i got in Xcom-apocalypse again :slight_smile:


#12

Julian himself has actually said that the reason why Apoc went realtime is because everyone was jumping on the RTS bandwagon at the time. Apoc wasn’t nearly as successful as UFO or TFTD.


#13

Turn based was default, RT was optional choice at mission launch. Yes, it was i486 era game.

By simple advancement of technology? I have seen great AIs in 16-bit home computer era, and very dumb AIs in current era games, so all I have to say is “human intelligence does not progress with technology”. A clever coders are needed. AI is born out of human intelligence.

I can advise you to follow Open-Apoc project.