Neurazer+Quick Aim+Melee proficiency on 1.10 Orryx

You nerfed the neurazer exploit with quick aim and melee proficiency. That’s fine, using it 200 times on a Scylla was abuse and non-conducive to strategic and tactical gameplay.

But now, my sniper with melee proficiency and quick aim and a neurazer, that I carefully nurtured and equipped, cannot even get one free hit with quick aim. What I mean is, for each use of quick aim and 3WP, you should be able to get one free Neurazer hit. Currently, even with quick aim, it uses 1 AP.

Which to me means, it’s now not working as intended and makes paralyzing enemies much much harder. There’s still a huge risk for the operative to go into melee range with basically a tiny tranq gun, so there needs to be some reward from that. Even with 3-4 quick aims, after expending most/all of your WP, you might not paralyze many enemies especially lategame.

Hopefully you can fix it.

Otherwise I really have to go with Synedrion and paralysing weapons, probably in a new playthrough where I haven’t favoured New Jericho. Even then, having everyone equipped with paralysing weapons isn’t fun and ideal - you need a lot of carry strength to have both damage and paralyzing weapons, or you hope to paralyze the whole map with just paralyze weapons (something clearly not feasible late game anymore). OR you forget about paralyze and see how far you get without capturing anything - I think it’s necessary though for story progression and to get damage buffs and tech.

PS. I posted this on your subreddit earlier, this is just a copy paste for more visibility.

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They fixed that, nice!

Please no :slightly_smiling_face:

I just wish quick aim didn’t reduce cost of using any weapon to 0 AP.

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It is because Neurazer is not considered a melee weapon but equipment therefore you are not proficient with it. You also cannot lower the AP cost of medkits with Quick Aim.


Yes, ok, I understand that’s how you did it to solve the abuse problem. And it’s good you nerfed it!

But in doing so, you also removed something useful and what I think, intended behaviour severely impacting the game when it comes to capturing Pandorans.

If it’s not classified a melee weapon to avoid spamming it infinitely, can’t you just fix it so it’s a special case - neither equipment nor a melee weapon so that we get 3-4 hits with 9-12 WP?

I put it to you and to everyone, capturing Sirens is now very challenging and probably costly, and capturing a Scylla will basically be impossible if I understood the nerf to panic locks (haven’t tried it yet myself). Disabling body parts to reduce strength values doesn’t work, as then they will probably just bleed to death by the end of the mission.

Or how are we supposed to do this now? Without making operatives worm food? :wink:

Should be 0.5, but maybe its Pentium 75 Mhz divide bug :slight_smile:

How about using Mind Control during the turn when Scylla has panic immunity?
War Cry should be helpful too.

Panic immunity doesn’t mean virus immunity, she still goes down to 0 WP in this immunity turn and the AI will mostly just recover, so she is still perma locked:
panic → auto recover → immunity but AI recover → panic → auto recover → immunity but AI recover → panic …

This was the result in many of our tests. I had this behaviour in a Citadel and was able to paralyse a Scylla with Heras and Neurazer pretty easy. I don’t like it, virus is still an abusable mechanic. In a HD she was heavily wounded and runs to evac in her immunity turn and I liked that much more.

See below, it seems that the release version of Orryx has changed to our last CC test build.

I told you :smile:

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If the real issue is you don’t like the risk of using a neurazer because you might get hit back in response, I suggest looking into the heavy ability’s warcry. Alone, it gives -2 AP, and because paralyze rounds up, hitting an enemy once removes 1 ap for any nonzero amount of paralysis applied to it. In the worst case, you’re fighting a scylla and they’ll have 1 ap to strike one of your guys for a good chunk like 180 or so hp, but that shouldn’t be a killing blow. Once you exceed half of their paralysis max value, they lose the remaining AP. I routinely capture scyllas with the relatively low cost of one guy taking a solid, but non-fatal hit.

And seems to be changed for the release.

A first test against a Scylla in a Citadel with massive virus on her (> 50) gives me the following result:

  • Turn 0: Before panicking, I reduced the armor of her abdomen with one Armadillo shot and after that 4 shots with a redeemer (12 bullets = 60 virus), one bullet misses, so 55 virus. Panic was shown and virus immediately dropped to 54 at the end of my turn, if I remember correctly.

  • Turn 1: She panicked AND recovers in this turn, she had 26 WP (max 50) at the end of her turn and 53 virus.

  • Turn 2: Panic immunity, virus also kicked in, but she had 1 WP left and attacked my Armadillo, 52 virus.

  • Turn 3: She panicked AND recovers, again 26 WP at the end of her turn, 51 virus.

  • Turn 4: see turn 2 and then it repeats …

All in all she was close to destroy the Armadillo with the help of other Pandorans that also runs around. I was still able to paralyse her but it was pretty close and only because I used 3 stealthy Infiltrators that all shoot with Heras even when they were not proficient and these also were able to kill or paralyse all the surrounding enemies in between.

Turn order in this test for the Scylla after virus was applied:
Panic+recover → action → panic+recover → action → …

Some pictures, but be aware of spoilers for citadel attacks:

Turn 2:

After 3 additional turns, the Armadillo has to retreat to not get destroyed, but she was already close to paralysed:

That said, it is more difficult now but still possible and I personally like this very much, it doesn’t feel longer that abusing as it was before.