Keep Rage Burst as it is (Please)

But we love to speculate

I bet RB is nerfed one way or another burst 3 or accuracy for SR and SG , or both :popcorn:

And what prevents one from maximising damage output and using combined tactics? I don’t necessarily how the former removes the latter.

Personally I think giving players a whole bunch of options and let them develop their own play style is the way to go, rather than putting strict limits on exactly how one should play.

Games like Fallout (not including Fallout 4) and Deux Ex champion this to great success. Completely different genre, but an example. Fallout for example is all about “here is this world. Go play how you want”. And deus Ex is all about “here is your target. Choose how to tackle it”.

Terminator builds though to me should go. They are an exploit.

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Remove accuracy penalty - yes. About remove limit on 5 “bullets” - it can be discussed. I think, that AR is the most ineffective weapon since mid game. So, full clip burst will make them more usefull.

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Just make a 3 or 5 ammo clip for sniper rifle and RB being OP is fixed !

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We should perhaps consider that movement points are also a limited duration of time. This has been including in the game and is how enemy units move. They move before you line up the shot and during the moment of taking the shot. This is why when a sniper Rage Bursts, some shots miss, simply because the enemy target is moving. So perhaps this Time concept should be added to the weapons with RB.

Given a highly trained soldier at level 7 is very good, how many shots is a sniper be capable of rattling of in a moment of 3 MPs. If a turn (just guessing) is 5 seconds then how many shots can snipe fire off in 3/4 of that time. Clearly, a heavy machine gun will do more. So in essence a sniper can RB, but not exactly how a mechanically automatic gun can. Perhaps the concept of 5 shot bursts should be varied according to the weapon, not simply 5?

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By making it unnecessary. If you can do something in one step, why do it in three?

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Absolutely not. They are very effective weapons throughout the game if used properly. And if allowed to RB without accuracy penalty and/or using full mag will be insanely OP.


It removes latter by maximizing damage the way it is currently available, that makes game less tactical. Of course one can play tactically and still maximize damage, but then there won’t be too much tactic unless one will encounter vast number of enemies - which for me is unnecessary complication and extension of combat duration (what is mentioned in other thread that missions are boredom and slog). I would prefer to have lower damage per soldier and lower number of enemies. That would make each enemy more individual and meaningful.


To be true unless you shred armor earlier they are not so deadly. :slight_smile: You need to remember that Rage Burst removes almost whole magazine with one activation. Then you would need to have a lot of magazines to be able to fight in next turns. I would balance it so that such use is quite powerful, but it would be kind of overkill to use against single small enemy.

I would need to think how to balance it correctly, because my other postulate is to limit number of enemies in each battle. If there would be 5 enemies, and each our soldier could perform rage burst with assault rifle on each of them then it would be not fun at all.

So yeah, accuracy penalty should stay. Usage of whole magazine… I’m not sure. Maybe it should be based on actual cost to shoot weapon? So heavy weapons would use equivalent of 3 shots, medium weapons would use equivalent of 5 shots, small weapons would use equivalent of 6 or 7 shots. So weapons with high capacity magazines would be limited in power with such skill.

Maybe laser rifles good, but all other ineffective and useless. Even in the beginning when fighting against humans AR poor enough. In compare with melee/sniper/heavy weapons.

Rage Burst is gaining near middle game and there are much more enemies. So don’t think it’s a problem.
With ability to use all ammo soldier can to kill one target with RB by cost of full magazine. Right now with two bursts assault can make only few scratch on enemy.

It’s only useless and ineffective if you don’t know how to use it. Take the basic AR. It does 30 x 6 damage for 2 AP, shreds 1 armor with each bullet, and is effective at 25 tiles.

180 damage and 6 shred for 2 AP is way better than, say, 130 damage and no shred for 3 AP (the sniper rifle with the highest damage output). Sure, armor can pose a problem, but 1) there are often exposed body parts, and 2) armor can be shredded. It’s more effective to use a different weapon to shred armor and then use an AR to deal damage.

This an example of combined tactics I keep referring to and which get burried with stuff like Rage Burst, because instead of having to use a cannon to shred armor to expose the target to an attack by ARs, you can just shoot 5 rounds with cannon into the target at the AP cost of a single attack and be done with it.

Edit: typos


O, common! To lay all 6 bullets you must be not more then 10 tiles. And to land all 6 bullets in one not armored part you must be less then 5 tiles. It’s much better to shoot from shotgun into part without armor from same distance and guarantee kill enemy.
I can agree, that killing large enemy with combining different skills from different soldiers is interesting. But use two soldiers to kill one Atron ( don’t forget about return fire) is insane! Cause they from mid game double you at number. And armor. And firepower. So, AR is absolutely useless, cause even full burst with 180 damage can’t kill Atron. And this mean you take return fire. In close it’s almost 100% death to your soldier.
In this game you have to shoot from long range to not take return fire and/or use hit-and-run tactic. Or go to close with one deadly strike. And AR absolutely ineffective in these roles.

For defense against Arthrons’ return fire, I find it better for AR to get proper cover and set up OW. They expose their less armored parts and one doesn’t get hit with RF.

Isn’t it fantastic how many different ways to get there in this game? :slight_smile:
I have no problem with assault rifles until the end of the game, different approaches make that possible. I think snapshot has done a lot right so far (except for the basic balancing issues and some bugs :wink: )


No, it’s because game very unbalanced and some aspects, like terminators, much more effective then other.
Also, there are player punishing system for playing good. I never want to loose my soldier and use save/load. And mid game for me and someone who loose soldiers is different, I think. Cause when I read about how AR is good I start to think that we playing different games :slight_smile:

AR is good :sweat_smile:

My assault soldiers have not complaints


Yep, thats Phoenix Point baby, one game, many different ways to play it :wink:

Yokes beside, the AR aren’t that bad for me as you describe because from the beginning on they are accurate enough to put some bullets into enemies without getting to close. Perfect mid range weapon and thats the distance I mostly want to fight with my assaults. I personally don’t like melee, the short range shotguns or Deceptor and use them very seldom. I know, they are for sure very effective but for me simply to risky and not funny to play. Armor is almost not really a problem for me, there are enough ways to get it away and then the ARs are the best choice at some distance.


Well, what can I tell you? I find ARs very effective until end game on Legend, and so do many other players. For every player who claims some weapon, skill, tactic, etc. is useless there is
another who has found a good use for it.

LOL, seems to me like you are doing everything you can to drive the DDA crazy :joy:. You are playing on Legend, using TBs and reloading the game when you have losses.

I’m not a big fan of the DDA, but I think it’s unfair to describe it as ‘punishing for playing well’ when you are reloading the game every time you have a casualty while playing on Legend. No offense, but was is really happening there is you are not playing well and tricking the game into raising the challenge for you ever more. Again, why not play on a lower difficulty level, where recruits have better stats, you are less likely to lose them and DDA is far more forgiving?

I mean, I have really invested a lot of time in understanding the game systems and trying out different things, but I have at least 10+ casualties on any playthrough, and on average my team takes around 30% damage on a mission.