Joining the Dash Debate

Having just wiped out the first Anu Diplomacy Mission with a hammer-wielding maniac doped up on Dash, I’d like to add my vote to those who believe that Dash is massively OP as it stands. In the last turn, she Dashed halfway across the map and took out the last 2 Heavies standing in a single turn.

Dash should either be limited to 1 use per turn, or cost at least double its current WP – though the latter solution can be worked around by jumping your Heavy all over the map to farm all the WP sources. My hammer-wielding loon had something like 24 WP when she finally went on her Bashing spree.

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SERIOUSLY NO…I really don’t understand all the crying over DASH! I like it the way it is, if you have issues with it just restrict yourself it really is that simple, but don’t take it form those who actually like it the way it is! It will only effect “your” game if you can’t resist using it, as for me I love it just the way it is and will be quite pissed if they change it.

But this game is not about Flash and Superman. Soldiers should not have skills like current Dash.

But this game is not about Flash and Superman. Soldiers should not have skills like current Dash.

Agreed. I’m expecting tactics in a tactical/strategy game and a superman doesn’t feel like it.

@Spagetman43 you’re in a minority of one here. The rest of us want an enjoyable balanced game. There are tons of games out there with cheats that make it impossible to lose. If that’s what you’re in to then I suggest you go find them.

For the rest of us serious gamers… well, we’re kind of hoping that Phoenix Point is better than that.

It is not about serious gamers. I stopped being professional gamer few years ago. :wink: It is about some logic what we can see on the screen. Currently Dash works just like cheats. You can run with one soldier over whole map in 1 TURN which is equivalent of, I don’t know, 10 seconds? It is super unnatural.

None of of us (outside potential modding) has power to change the game. All we do is provide feedback, and so is @Spagetman43.

I would recommend him, however, to give some backing to his request, as admiting the skill is OP doesn’t work in his favour. It should not be up to players to balance their games. It is natural human behaviour to strive to play as well as they can, and if the best way to play leads to limited builds and strategies it is the problem with the design, not players.

Dash seems to allow to bypass core gameplay considerations, making game less interesting then it could be, and I can’t imagine game staying appealing for long in this state, even if immediate power rush could be entertaining. Whenever Snapshot agrees we will find out on December 3rd.

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The problem is, Spagetman, as it stands it breaks the game.
This is supposed to be a game of tense, tactical horror, where every move across the map is fraught with danger, and careful tactical thinking is needed to survive.
That simply does not happen with Dash the way it is. Instead, you sit back with your snipers and pick off the enemy’s weapons, then send in your axe-wielding maniacs in a manic Dash across the map to mop up the survivors.
That’z not what the core audience of this game is looking for. It’s not what they signed up for when they backed the game, and if it stays that way, they’ll simply go back to XCOM to get the challenge they’re after.
And as Wormerine so aptly put it, it’s not up to us gamers to balance the game. The challenge is in fining ways of manipulating the system to squeeze the last possible advantage against seemingly insurmountable odds. If you have to rein yourself back from that, the game’s not doing it’s job.

I really do get all your points here! Seriously… However, again it really does come down to “don’t over use it” it really is that simple! having it there does not mean you HAVE to use it! And it does not break the game that is a bit dramatic…:slight_smile: Anyway, we will all see when it comes out…:slight_smile:

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It is not, actually. Games are supposed to have a set of rules which…make them games, actually, so “use it or not” is’t an option. Any broken rule shouldn’t exist and if it’s there we call it unbalanced or even broken game.What you’re suggesting doesn’t make the game any better, just more annoying (because I’m forced to not use/overuse all tools provided by devs).

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Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game. - Soren Johnson

One of the responsibilities I think we have as designers is to protect the player from themselves - Sid Meier

EDIT: And while mostly focused on Isometric RPGs, this Josh Sawyer post very eloquently explains importaace of Single Player game’s (RPGs?) balance.


A quote that I think is relevant:

When our area and system designers build encounters, they have to be built around an understanding of party capabilities: their overall statistics, their available gear, their consumable items, and their various abilities. In a traditional D&D-style CRPG, this spectrum of possibility gets wider and wider the higher the levels get and the more gear becomes available to the player. The less balanced individual choices are from level to level and item to item, the more difficult it is for area designers to design content that works for a spectrum of choices.

With Dash being so useful to engage and disengage how does one design encounter for Phoenix Point? Does one assume that players have and abuse dash and balance game around that? Can we build a team without dash? Or are encounters simply undertuned and dash is there as a “get-out-of-jail” card making most encounters end in one turn if we choose to do so?

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