Sure, it’s not absolutely necessary, but I’ve cleared difficult missions with no snipers as well. One of the satisfying things about PP is that there are multiple ways to approach battles.
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If the tank had better options from the beginning besides jumping, then I could imagine that the newbies would be more comfortable with the tank than they are now. At the start the tank kicks nothing. Even in 3m distance. Accuracy should increase with distance, for example. This needs to be improved. The tank should offer a better choice than the others. Since he is behind in accuracy. Simply switching to “sniper” is not enough.
The beauty is that both worlds can exist. With and without tank, with and without sniper. For me, tank is not necessary. Perk with Heavy is perfectly enough. RB was so strongly nerfed that no one understands why it still exists. As in life, everything that does not make sense is useless, dispensable.
I stop spamming Snipers as I started also to defend Anu heavens and Snipers especially on the slum maps are lost. Without Assaults and Heavies that can go close and deal substantial damage without going down by retaliation these maps are not “easy” winnable, at least for me.
But generally you’re absolutely right:
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Exactly, to each his own. I’m glad that there are several ways to finish the game. What else speaks against “Tank” is the denigration of RB. It could not be more complicated. Fortunately, we don’t need RB anymore. Keep the nonsense to yourselves specialists.
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Just a question, when do you used the last time a Heavy with his own equipment?
In any of my last campaigns my first Heavy was always also the first that hits level 7. And it is not only bashing and War Cry, it is the whole package. And it worked especially in the beginning pretty nice, now even better with an Autocannon that has the range close to Assault Rifles and his armor doesn’t have the huge acc penalty as before (-30% down to -16%).
Later on they lose a bit of their close quarter utility but it still worked when they got support or to fish out isolated but dangerous enemies.
And here Rage Burst is a Chiron killer if used with the right weapon, the Deceptor (jump in and War Cry, next turn Rage Burst to almost death, if not then there is also a team or at least a turn after). Heavy Rage Burst with Sniper rifle is a not a choice and I think that is what many of the people complain. But in my eyes it was always not right to use single shot weapons for a skill called Rage Burst.
Yes, it is situational, but that was almost always the case, even before this nerf I used it not very much and only against the biggest enemies.
Well, enough argued, to each his own 
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As I said, in my game I don’t need this crash. All the others are more scaleable and usable. Havy is for me “no go”. As explained without accuracy is useless. Except perks for jumping. But is no havy.
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Then you should maybe not argue so offensive, many things have changed in the past especially for heavies. When you don’t used them for a long time, then you probably don’t know how they perform nowadays.
Just saying
I have to confess, with the first variant of “RB”, where 5 Bullet were available, I used the Havy in a certain way. Now not use it except for “bouncing”.
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If I don’t need it why should I use it? Because you would like to? Tell me why? Just a reason?
Let me guess, of course with a sniper rifle and not a heavy weapon?
And if so, do you think that’s the way a Heavy should work?
You don’t need to use Heavies, it is completely on your own. But then please don’t complain this way, when you don’t know what to do with them. If you don’t like them, then don’t use them, but that doesn’t mean that they are completely nonsense, obsolete, useless.
You know what I mean?
Again, no offence
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As I said, Havy doesn’t bring any significant added value after the current patch other than the one sniper rifle in hand. Similar to you, I’ve played through the game several times with different formations. Like I said, RB was good enough for different skill sets in the beginning. Now completely useless. Again, why would I play it again with a character I don’t like or isn’t good enough? There are other options that are far better and easier.
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The slums can certainly be the most challenging of the Haven defense missions. However, I have fair luck using snipers along with assault and heavies. But, then I tend to multi-class my Assaults and Heavies as Snipers too. This gives me a good mix of roles to play on any one given mission. Once the out of LOS enemies are located (either Heavies getting higher ground or an assault scouting about), I can weaken them with bombardments. But, my Snipers almost always get a few good clean kills in the slums of Anu.
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How close do you have to be to hit anything at all? No, it’s nice to hear that players can use it but only in “quite” tuned “situations” or with " only specific " weapons". In the past, not everything was better but easier. Remember.
About 4-6 tiles, the closer the better of course.
The “specific weapons” are all heavy weapons that have a burst, so Tyr-1, Deceptor, the Acis gun (forget its name) and additionally all other weapons that have a burst like ARs and PDWs. It is a rage BURST, you know.
I remember, in the past a sniper rifle ‘burst’ beats all other weapons and that from a far distance, easy gaming. But even when it was easier, for me it felt plain wrong for a Heavy skill.
i can kill from 10+, why should i risk 4+? What is the value added?
so what’s wrong with that? It’s the same when someone tells me you have to be 4+10 away to kill something, there’s no difference.
Capture potential, neutralizing Chirons with war cry, finishing them off with bash for 1AP. You do give up stuff by running entirely at range.
I use Heavies as single class mostly, with heavy armor, using heavy weapons. Usually I don’t use them as artillery, because it’s expensive. It’s true that once they get Destiny III (which can happen too fast, because it only takes aligning with NJ and Synedrion), their utility increases tremendously. However, even before that point I find their performance more than satisfactory, and I’m not referring to bash or WC here, but shooting their main heavy weapon.
Why? Because I don’t go for a high speed or a high accuracy team; on Legend it means neglecting strength, armor and skills. For example, this
Shotguns basically compete with melee and bash; typically you have to be 1 or 2 tiles away from the target. Say the target is 15 tiles away. Sure, for an operative kitted out for speed closing the distance might be feasible, but you can do worse than having a heavy in heavy armor with a heavy weapon shoot at it from 12 tiles away (after spending 1 AP on moving).
Bash scales with strength and heavy weapons weigh 5, and heavy has the Brawler skill, so there is a lot of synergies to take advantage of there. (and bash is kinda OP Combat - wiki.phoenixpoint.com). However, you still need to invest in strength and to close the distance… Sometimes you can have a situation where you start close to an enemy and you can bash 2-3 times, but other times it’s more like you can shoot it once with a heavy weapon, or jet jump to it and bash it once, and there the best choice is situational.
In conclusion, I think that how satisfied you are with the ‘tanky’ heavy depends a lot on the composition of your team. I remember that when I was playing with fast assaults with shotguns the ‘tanky’ heavy just didn’t fit in that setup; there you want to go with a heavy weapon specialist, kitted out for accuracy and/or speed.
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At the beginning you have no bash or anything else. No multiclass. Once you reach lvl 5-6, you can only decide between Havy / Sniper / AR. Investing in Havy is quite risky. The Havy has to hit something and it can’t do that at the beginning. So you have to give him Sniper equipment and weapon if he can do that. Thanks to Perk it works early.
In later stages it doesn’t matter what skill you have, everything is over if you have Ancient Weapons.
This is just an example. You are right it depends on your troop.
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What when the target is in a place without LOS? How many shots you need to kill the bigger Chirons with 1000 HP or even more?
Of course I also assist often with Assaults or snipe with my Sniper, but the Heavy deals simply most of the damage with its Rage Burst and the Chiron is mostly down in one turn with some help.
No one has to use it he same way, I only explain what I do and how I like it. You asked me …
Generally wrong in my opinion was, that this sniper rage burst maked the heavy weapons even more unnecessary, close to useless. Only sniper rifles were the way to go, for me this was basically unbalanced. Nowadays the heavy weapons have their place in my play stile, in the past it was mostly not really worth it. Just go for sniper rifles and done …
I don’t tell you to play the same way, I only explain how I use the heavy weapons, armor and skills. You tell any other that these weapons, armor and skills are useless. They are only useless for your style to play (and probably many other players), but not in general.
Can we finish this now?
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