Berserkers and melee need fixing

If they put some melee weapons down to 1AP, it would be nice to have an ability to “dual strike” for 2AP and 1 or 2 WP, to have a chance to kill a target before taking the return fire. Would be usable for Neurazer to apply 16 paralysis in one action.


Usually developers choose a good or bad solution and all the players have to live with it. Something like in politics. Your solution is elegant and easy to implement. Unfortunately, developers prefer to trust more statistics for whatever reason without knowing and explaining it. Hope dies last :slight_smile:

Interesting topic. Just had a chance to read it whole. I wondered what can I do with low level berserker and unfortunately there is nothing interesting to do. :frowning:

They shine in some cases:

  • multi-class them (so since 4th level) which opens new possibilities to any class - so nothing specific for berserker
  • use ranged weapons with Armor Break (since level 2) - but I suppose that is not the role which berserker should excel into especially without proficiency skills
  • when they level up to have Ignore Pain and Adrenaline Rush, so they receive unique properties and conditions along with great potential for attacks - but what they should do before that?

Close quarters doesn’t change much. Bloodlust is powerful but you really put your soldier at risk if you want to utilize it (with high soldier recruitment cost I wouldn’t advise that to anyone).

So basically they are useless after you receive them. If you want to play them as single class or multi-class them you need to wait until they level up in your base in training facility.

I’m not sure if even that Charge ability described above will change their usefullness on low levels. And you still are required to send them to some missions to earn Skill Points to select that ability. So in first few combats they would need to stay behind your lines and passively gather SP.

Decrease in AP cost to 1 point for melee attacks is definitely a must. But still I’m not sure if at level 1 or 2 it is enough.

Melee attacks without heavy’s skill for +50% melee damage is very poor, so even 1AP attacks can’t change alot.

OK, here’s what I’d like see to make the bezerker more melee orientated as opposed to ranged:

Level 1 – Bezerker training – proficiency with handguns and melee weapons

Level 2 – Mighty strike – will point ability (3WP) – for rest of turn, melee attacks cost 1 AP and do +50% damage (10 SP)

Level 3 – Close quarters combatant – attacks from enemies within 10 tiles do 25% less damage, ignores overwatch, return fire, and melee riposte within 10 tiles (20 SP)

Level 4 – new class (50 SP)

Level 5 – Bloodlust – gain +10% melee damage and speed bonus for each enemy killed that mission up to +50% (15 SP)

Level 6 – Ignore Pain – immune to panic and mind control, disabled body parts remain functional (25 SP)

Level 7 – Adrenaline rush – will point ability (4WP) – one use per turn, recover 2 action points, melee attacks gain shred 20 (30 SP)

In addition, I think Anu and Forsaken should have early game access to smoke grenades and their own stun grenades to support close quarters tactics

What you mean by that?

The tentacle torso augment gives melee riposte.

But not in range of 10 tiles?

I mean that all 3, overwatch, return fire, and melee riposte are disabled against a bezerker with these skills.
One of the main problems with melee is that you leave yourself wide open to return fire from crabmen with machine guns if you don’t kill or daze them - I think bezerkers should get a skill that shuts this down.
I also think that the damage buffs should apply to all the mutation augments, including damage from daze and paralysis.
If devs want bezerkers to be used as intended - i.e. melee - then these are things they could do.
Smoke and stun grenades would also help bezerkers to close the distance.

Overall good ideas. I would change few things.

  • Melee AP cost to 25% always, not only for Berserker with activated ability.
  • So level 2 skill I would change to grant that 50% melee damage bonus and stun damage equal to that increased damage.
  • Level 3 I would completely change - remove that 25% less damage resistance (such protection should be granted by some special armor, not passive skill - I’m not sure if I would leave that bonus anywhere). Ignores ovewatch is too unrealistic, berserker doesn’t go into shadow plane to go past enemy defences. But what I would give here is passive engagement of enemy, so enemy starts turn with only 3 AP when adjacent to berserker and can’t use most of the weapons except melee, bash, handguns and maybe shotguns (also applies to most aliens attacks, but many of them have melee so berserker still can be screwed). Also any enemy movement (entering, leaving, moving inside) in tiles adjacent to berserker provokes 1 attack of opportunity in enemy turn if he is equipped with melee weapon.
  • Level 6 I would change to be activated ability to grant mind control immunity for like 2 or 3 turns. Immunity to panic I would include in level 1 berserker training - that should be their main trait that they don’t panic. And also disabled body parts should function only during that special time when Ignore Pain is active. When it ends all disabled body parts stop to give functions. Current passive immunity is so powerful that even Scylla compared to such berserker is a little bug squicking because of disabled leg or arm. :slight_smile:


OK, I’ve considered what you wrote, thanks for the input, and I think perhaps these are what the skills should be:

Level 1 – Bezerker training – proficiency with handguns and melee weapons - all melee attacks with bezerker class cost 1 AP, including melee mutations

Level 2 – Mighty strike – will point ability (3WP), one use per turn – for rest of turn, all melee attacks do +50% damage and can cause stun (10 SP)

Level 3 – Close quarters combatant – enemies can’t use ranged attacks against an adjacent bezerker, bezerker gains melee riposte, any units moving away from an adjacent bezerker get melee attacked (20 SP)

Level 4 – new class (50 SP)

Level 5 – Bloodlust – gain +10% melee damage and speed bonus for each enemy killed by the bezerker that mission up to +50% (15 SP)

Level 6 – Ignore Pain – immune to panic, activated ability once per turn (2 WP) - until next turn, bezerker is immune to mind control and disabled limbs become functional (20 SP)

Level 7 – Adrenaline rush – will point ability (4WP) – one use per turn, recover 2 action points, melee attacks gain shred 20 (30 SP)

I personally don’t think melee weapons should be 1 AP for all classes, I think melee should be the bezerkers thing. Or it should be linked to proficiency - proficiency with melee means it’s 1AP to use but no proficiency means it’s 2 AP.

1 Like

Maybe you are right. :slight_smile:

EDIT: Ha! Just checked my notes. Soldiers not proficient with melee would attack 50% times slower. But still I listed 1 AP as base value for proficient unit. :slight_smile: So in current game terms it can be 2 AP for non proficient units. Good thinking out there sir!

Nice ideas, especially that the “Beserker” gets a “real” advantage with meele weapons.
Before implementing all of these good ideas, several other things need to be changed.

Have you already looked at @VOLAND’s guide on “alpha killers”? It is definitely worth a look!
Just a small extract with meele weapons.

1 Like

Level 2 and level 5 skills grant us new terminator build. With heavy skill we got +100% melee damage, then +50% after killing 5 enemies and with two personal skill another +50%. Now we have +200% melee damage which mean 480 alpha damage for 1AP.
With only +100% to melee my one soldier complete missions in 1 turn on legend.

1 Like

I don’t know if you had a chance to play with the DLC, and try out the bionic melee torso (allowing melee attacks for 1AP). It’s absolutely OP on an assault/heavy. I put it on a sniper/heavy to keep it from breaking my game (to get the 50% damage bonus, but no dash, or rapid clearance). And even so it was devastating (for the record, she had the melee third row damage buff, but no Reckless).

Melee weapons have very high damage per hit (even without buffs), so they can punch through any armor, which makes them good for both crowd control and big monster hunting… Of course, the disadvantage of having to usually spend at least 3 APs to use them (one to close the distance, 2 to strike) normally makes their use suboptimal. However, lower the AP cost to 1 and you go to the other extreme.

Add this and the serker class would be easily the most OP in the game:

This last one paired with Rapid Clearance would be a safety net for closing loops. The shredding though would be unnecessary, because of the high damage per hit.


Oh yes. But proposing such skills doesn’t mean that there won’t be other changes. They are to make berserker usable without multiclassing. Skills proposed by David don’t allow for killing loop and wiping out enemies in one turn. You just mix them with ovepowered skills from other classes and perks.

And to be true melee should go to some extremes, as you need to risk your own soldier and close the distance to the enemies.

Of course those proposed skills are not perfect, but definitely look better than current Berserker skills.

This game live and die with the multiclass system.
On the one hand many interesting builds and on the other hand many broken combinations. So multiclass must always be in the back of your mind when making any adjustments.
I also don’t like proposed Lvl. 7 skill at all.
Such skills that regenerate APs break game balancing!

Yes, if you can no longer blow away your opponents with one shot. Then the high risk of moving into the direct neighborhood should also be particularly rewarded.
According to the current state of the game (extreme mobility) it would simply be an alpha terminator build.

1 Like

Guys you take this proposal without context. Currently proposing anything still leads to extreme builds if you multiclass with assault/sniper/heavy. Even if above skills would grant +1% to anything and some resistances it would still allow to build terminator unit because there are skills on other classes which are just too strong. But Berserker alone would be unplayable. You need to have in mind that other classes would be also nerfed, but this is not the topic to touch other classes.

Actually, in this case I’m assuming that there will be sweeping changes:

mobility/accuracy/damage buffs will be reduced across the board, dash and quick aim will be limited to once per turn, and rally the troops to once per turn per squad. Only Rapid Clearance stays as is (because with those changes it would cease to be a problem).

Those changes would take care of all the alpha-strike killer builds that I can imagine, except the ones based around 1AP melee attacks.

This proposal IS without any context. And by it’s own with current mechanics it bring the most OP build to game ever. Dreams about nerf everything is only in your head and don’t related to this topic.