I've just killed 200 hp pandoran with a medkit

Bashing working on strength and weight is making all stuff good in melee. Like medkit? You shouldn’t be running and bashing pandorans with medkits. We need some rework of this. Although it’s kind of funny. I’ve just bashed 4 times a guy who wanted to melee me with a pincer. Nope he forgot what he’s dealing with. A medkit.

Maybe only medkit no weapons challenge?

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Sounds like another good self restriction rule :laughing:

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You brought a pincer to a bashing fight. smack this is MEDKIITTTTTT

Just allow to bash with empty slot (fixed weight 2 or dependent on torso). Weird restrictions like being able to melee with medkit, but not with armored fists lead to weird solutions.

Or even better, disregard held item for bash purposes if it’s not a weapon (same as no item fist bash, but you don’t need to keep empty slot).

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You can attack with hands only. I’m still confused how bashing work. You apparently can’t bash with combat shield.

But how this bashing damage is calculated when person has an armor and what body part you actually bash? and how armor break works?

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Bash damage is strength x item weight - armor of the hit body part.
The body part is probably the one that is closest to the basher, often arm or leg, but I’m not entirely sure.

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And does armor break works with bash?

It should, I don’t use bash with berserkers … rarely even berserkers at all :wink:

I’ve just sent 3 berserkers and 3 heavy with only melee weapon and medkits to see. Aparently armor break does not work with bash. Bashing with fist will not apply shred.

It’s just confusing I’m doing 40 damage with medkit per bash but how can I know if he will atack part without armor or with. It matters to bashing with medkits. Like you can’t go bashing with medkits if they will atack parts with most armor. :slight_smile:

Body part which will be hit is randomly selected from those seen from attackers perspective. You can’t choose which one will be hit.

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Interesting. Although it seems it chooses for whole turn. I had like 5 times attacking head in a row. What are the odds?

I’ve tested it more and it seems that damage with bash is always done to the same body part.

Either only in the same turn, all attacks are to one body part. Like it randomly selects head and every attack no matter which soldier, it’s to the head.

Or is about lowest armor which is also a possibilty.

But it looks like first option.

Interesting… will check that, but I think I damage different body parts with Bash - still I wasn’t using medkit.

:slight_smile:

I saw like 5 times in the row the same thing. Only one part was affected and guy died to medkit bashing. But I could be wrong. Sometimes it’s hard to see this and it always could be RNG.

But bash is too OP vs melee atack. Just put 5 weight weapon and you can basically kill everyone because it’s costing 1 AP and strength goes to 30. So 30 x 5 = 150. Armor doesn’t work on that. Because even if you have 50 which you seldom see, then you do 100 per bash still.

So humans have no way to defend that at all. Most pandorans as well. They have too low health. I’ve just did 4 missions in a row without any single ammo firing. Just medkit and heavy gun bashing. And there was like 10 guys on the map.

And you still have +50% bonuses or even higher with perks. So there are plenty of times where they die to one single bash. You just jump 20 tiles and bash with heavy.

There is this fumble mechanic. I still need to see that. Maybe I bash too much with melee proficiency.

Either bash damage should be lowered or AP of bash ramp up, or some other action like 1% that you disable your body part if you bash.

Otherwise you just going and bashing. And yes it’s fun. But after couple of missions it’s given so you could bash 50 next missions without firing a shot, but in what end.

And weapons can break yes. but usually you have 3-6 bashes per heavy weapon. This is 3 guys dead on the map. How many are those left and you have another 4 of those at least. Maybe even 7.

It doesn’t apply to bash attack. And for typical melee, where it should work (for soldiers not proficient), it looks like bugged and isn’t applied.

And yes, council is aware of bash advantage over melee. One of members even created chart with outcomes.

It is like that because melee has to be attractive compared to ranged combat. So with each hit it has to do damage. If it was stopped by armor then melee (and bashing) would be completely not attractive for the player. Not that I like such situation but I understand developer’s decision here.

Yes. I agree. But what does that have to do with bashing with medkits and heavy guns. You don’t even need melee. You need bash. :slight_smile:

And I’m not for stopping bashing. I’m full on board on making different ways approach to do things.

Yeah. I agree. But how about making something that would make bash not so reliable instead of eliminating it. By making sth like disabling your own body part with 1% chance when you bash. Or making some armors / body parts / equipment that makes your bashing equipment getting destroyed if you bash. So you would actually have some enemies that are countering that play. Currently beserkers are only a little more annoying to deal with.

I’ve posted also my idea about item / weapons durability modifyer to tone bashing down.

https://feedback.phoenixpoint.info/feedback/p/make-killing-pandorans-with-medkit-at-higher-risk

Yep they could change the algorithm for bash damage to have some reasonable limits. :slight_smile: It shouldn’t affect other aspects of the game.

Oh and I forgot to share this:

http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Combat#Bash_and_Melee_weapons

Ok it attacks different body part for sure if you attack with different soldier. Although continous bashing / striking seems not.

need to lower that unnecessarily high strength cap. what’s 30str for? put some hp on gear for tankiness.

High strength cap is for HP mainly I think and throwing. It’s another example how mixing two mechanics together is introducing balancing problems. If you lower strength you messing with HP balance. It needs to be done separately. Make another variable for it.