Voland Canny ticket Update


If maintain a balance within each class, then we can avoid the “thermonuclear reaction” in the multiclass in this way:

  • at the beginning of each mission, for each unit, a max cap of its characteristics and parameters is fixed at an efficiency level of 150-300% (speed, damage, accuracy, AP …), which will block the increase of the lemite when adding and / or multiplying any buffs, by every turn.

    • 150% - difficulty Legend

      300% - Beginner difficulty

I apologize to Voland for using his nickname on the poster.

No problem.

Unfortunately, I don’t see much traction for the hard caps on buffs idea. I think for people who don’t like skills it’s too little, and for people who like skills it’s too much. A compromise solution that pleases no one.

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I voted for “something” to happen. Of course, it would only be a weak compromise.

What else (sorry for that): After the video about the skills of Gears Tactics, it seems to me that there are fewer superhero builds, even though you only lead a 4-man team!

See here in other thread:

And from a very unrealistic franchise! Sure it is only a “theoretical” impression, but what can be firmly stated, the characters cannot become “MAX” in all areas. If even Gears introduces a HARD CAP for even more casual players and “give me a win button player”, well …
So Phoenix Point please finally get the curve in balance (please ban extreme mobility, stackable multi-shoot, stackable skills system). It BREAKS the whole tactic!

Don’t be afraid of this step, it will make the game a lot better!
The basic structure of PP is incredibly promising, you just have to do something with it …

Couple thoughts of mine without a particular point to make.

  1. Ballistic system is a bit of a problem. As cool as it is, it must have been expensive to impliment and I don’t think it is utilised very well. It’s bigger advantage is counting every bullet individually, but that could have been easily achieved in a roll system as well. Another part is being able to hit individual body parts, which still could be done with roll system (see Fallout 1&2, F: Tactics), and while spread system has potential it is not very interesting.

  2. Ballistic system makes coming up with extensive skill tree ticky. FiraXCOMs and, from what I can tell Gears Tactics, use numerical buffs to excourage various play styles, and allow for various situational builds - aim bonus when on high ground, aim bonus when not moving, various ideal weapon ranges etc. While PP ballistic system is more complicated, it is also more limited in that regard. So skills have to be different.
    The problem I see, is that those other game’s abilities compliment the core game system - in PP skills seem to often bypass the core system - get aim boost to make sure you will hit the body part you want, use dash to appear in an ideal range and get out without a danger of overextending etc. I found skills in PP make the game less engaging, rather then more engaging. On the other hand, I am genuily trying to come up with skill trees I could mod in, if I had the skill… and I am coming up empty. Perhaps XCOMs skill design, and PP’s balistic design aren’t quite compatible? I was thinking, that perhaps moving those supper skills into inventory, rather then skills might work better.

DASH - limited use teleporter (or with recharge time)
QUICK AIM - consumable drug
MARK OF DEATH - attachable homing beacon

with will being used for small aim, movement boosts, or perhaps multiple overwatch shots (see Banner’s Saga will system).

  1. Those system breaking skills, lead to enemies doing the same - Chirons raining death from across the map, super armored enemies. In return small maps, with almost unlimited vision. The whole thing is a mess. The core gameplay loop would need a critical overhaul. PP maps are not interesting systemic challenges - they are just a mess of systems which don’t talk to each other.

PP is full of great ideas… in the worst case scenario at least other Tactics games might benefit of it’s best ideas and impliment them in tighter designed games.


150-300% is my personal preference, the developers will change it at their discretion. Pay attention to the Mechanics Scheme, are there any complaints and suggestions?

See, for example, a good video on YouTube, which explains the “pros and cons of ray tracing” or “ray tracing or shadows to manually created” for games and development. (These are good changes)

+1 (+1000%) imbalance that undermines faith in the game.

In the first place

Interesting thoughts.

I agree that the ballistics system could be used for more, but it has many advantages vs rolls. For example, consider the body part targeting. Unlike in the original fallouts, in PP shots that miss the intended body part can hit the target elsewhere, or hit something else. Also shooting at a destructible wall to hit an enemy behind it - you can’t really do so well with die rolls. Or using an auto weapon to hit multiple targets (something that is underutilized in PP, TBH).

Yes, you can use some mechanics with die rolls to get around these things, but you can’t replace something like discretely moving around the aiming reticle to choose exactly where to shoot and the projectiles behaving in exactly the same manner whether you are aiming at an enemy, a friendly, an object, or nothing.

My view is that using die rolls to determine to hit chances has many advantages, but the big disadvantage is that all you are doing is rolling dice. With ballistics, even if very simple, like in PP, you get to do something different (or at least I feel this way, other players might not - @SpiteAndMalice for example doesn’t see any difference given that the exact trajectory of the projectiles is determined by die rolls and the characters are static, so basically the die roll that determines the trajectory is exactly the same as the die roll that determines the to hit chances, but with unnecessary obfuscation).

As to the skills, I think PP could have easily gone with a different approach regardless of the ballistics mechanics. For example, there could have been skills to buff accuracy, or damage subject to particular conditions. Or there could be a penalty to accuracy from movement, and skills to reduce this penalty under specific circumstances.

However, as someone else (@Wenlock) has put it, PP is a wide open tactics game. So I would say that many of the skills in PP subvert the core systems, rather than bypassing them. This is not bad in principle (unless you want a more classic tactics turn based game), at the moment it’s just too much.

But when everything works, it works really well. Chirons, for example. They are great, actually (double explosion and the acid mess aside). They are a control on the player who is careless about detection, like the sirens are a control on a player who is careless about overextending. However, you have a situation where this is not explained to the player and where at the same time the player is given enough tools to end most missions on the first turn. Result: most players are oblivious to the existence of the detection mechanics except insofar as it concerns infiltrators, assume that the only reliable way of dealing with Chirons is killing them on the first turn, for which they need to use OP tactics, which are basically exploits.


My intention wasn’t to argue that Ballistic system was a waste of resources, and that PP should use the roll system. Rather that PP would be better of focusing on ballistic systems potential, rather then implimenting designs from FiraXCOMs which were added to spice up pretty basic roll system.

What if there were certain enemy body parts we would want to avoid hitting? And I don’t mean in terms of having more armor… what if some enemies had glad which spills mist when hit? Or enrages the enemy, giving it more movemement rage? What if maps had more interactive features so missing enemy might lead to an interesting systemic reaction.


Yep, that’s the kind of thing I meant when I said that ballistics were underutilised. For example, acid is a wonderful defense mechanism… Like against someone who decides to teleport next to you and shoot you with a shotgun.

Max cap of characteristics and parameters - will help give a start to nerfs and rearrangement skills. (in frames of difficulty Veteran’s as a standard for game balance, as game mechanics without super skills become difficult for a beginner)

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for example - sniper:

    1. extreme focus - overwatch gets “+25%” accuracy;
    1. quick aim - the cost of 1 shot “-1AP” -25% " accuracy;
    1. master marxaman - cost of 1 shot “+ 1AP” + 25%" accuracy;
    1. weak spot - “+ 25%” damage (or +15% damage + bleeding) in the damaged part of the body, for the whole battle;
    1. mark for death - the cost of 1 shot “+1AP” +25%" accuracy “+30%” damage.

You can do all that with dice rolls, it was a part of what made Silent Storm so good.

Regardless of aiming system, it’s the OP skills that are the problem. Dashing half the map in order to take a dice roll of 100% would be just as bad as a 100% full targeting reticule.


I think this is also true for the Jagged Alliance and UFO Defense, but is it true for development in a 3D-simulated environment? Who calculates the costs of resources and work, the path that Firaxis (creators of Sid Meier’s Civilization V in 2010) has traveled?

I’m also not sure that for the current path of designing Phoenix Point there will be enough, 2-3 times more resources and work than the current ones. (for a great game comparable to Silent Storm, Jagged Alliance and X-COM:UFO Defense)

Yeah, I agree. Except I don’t think that it is the skills that are OP, at least not in the dash case. I repeat myself, but the problem is not dash, it’s extreme mobility, and it needs to be fixed.

However, the balancing is not so easy, because of the relation between mobility and accuracy. Nerf mobility too much and it makes accuracy buffs/sniper rifles too valuable. That’s why I suggested hard caps, but there are different ways to achieve the same result. Currently I prefer @conductiv 's approach in general, tackling the buffs to accuracy, mobility and damage from armor and skills, though I’m not sure about the details.