A new look at a fair RB?

Rage Burst cost:

  1. 4AP with a delayed shot from an overwatch mechanic (the narrowest zone), (3burst - 3AP gun, 3burst - 2AP gun, 5burst - 1AP gun)
  2. 1AP this turn + 3AP(with stunning yourself) to the next turn + overwatch mechanics between them, (3burst - 3AP gun, 3burst - 2AP gun, 5burst - 1AP gun)

add:
4AP - makes you prepare the attack in advance or discharge into the enemy in front of you.

1AP this turn + 3AP (with stunning) to the next turn - gives flexibility in preparation, but punishes in the next turn, with stunning remains 1AP and -50% accuracy, which is not enough to escape.

delayed shot from an overwatch mechanic (the narrowest zone) - you aim at the target, press the shot, and the soldier goes into overwatch with a small beam. At the next turn, shots are fired at the target, possibly in motion. This is deferred damage with an unclearly predicted result.

An overwatch for an attack is an interesting and dangerous tool.

other fair examples

Sounds overly complex to me.

3 Likes

Just make it auto weapons only and add a swipe…

4 Likes

Single shoot 3 times with 50% accuracy in overwatch mode - leaves the opportunity but hard cuts the effective range. Unlike high performance spray.

efficiency example needed

add:
@VOLAND describe the more or less frequent scenario of using swipe in the game, otherwise it is easier to do without it. And it’s better to include this mechanic in a machine gun with some kind of negative effect.

Wouldn’t the simplest thing be to just give it a turn or two cool down?

Oh indeed it would… But I am coming to believe that there is an institutional opposition to Cooldowns within the design philosophy of Snapshot.

So many of the egregiously OP skill combos could so easily be fixed by simply adding Cooldowns or per turn limits, but it never (or hardly ever) happens, and there must be a reason for that.

Some have cooldowns for one turn, i.e. using only once per turn:

  • Rageburst
  • Rally the troops
  • Recovering will
  • Infiltrators decoy
  • … (there are more, but i don’t remember them all :wink: )

It seems that Snapshots design phylosophy is not that straight against turn limits as you assume.

A fair point :slight_smile: But I think you know we meant the cooldown would be the next turn too. I wouldnh’t Have a cool down on the decoy I don’t really get why it needs to dramaically die at the end of turn or take damage for that matter. Why can’t it just be deployed or not. Maybe you can have a maximum of two projecting at any one time and you can activate and deactivate as you will. For AP cost obvs. I think it should function like the sheild thingy.

None of these are Cooldowns, they’re hard once-per-turn limits. And some limits are actually only there because of AP costs.

It may have been changed in the recent patch, but from memory RB costs 3 APs, theoretically making it a once per turn ability. However, the ability to spam Rally the Troops &/or Rapid Clearance makes a complete mockery of this, because all you have to do is fire off 2 Rallies from your support dudes, and RB is back online again. As I say, I may be misremembering this since I don’t have the game open (and I refused to play it that way long before it was nerfed - if it ever was).

As long as PP allows AP recycling on an almost infinite loop, any supposed ‘once per turn’ limit imposed by AP cost is a mockery.

Also, as Ragewraith says, skills like RB, Rapid Clearance, Electric Reinforcement etc are so stupidly overpowerul that they should not only be limited to once per turn, but should have at least a 1 or 2 turn Cooldown period after use; which would stop them being abused the way they are. And Rally the Troops is such an egregious extra-turn giver that its benefit should be limited to each recipient, not just the donator.

But the devs clearly don’t agree, so we are stuck with the OP superheroes that we have and have to impose our own personal limits to keep the game balanced - because as I have said many times before, what kicks the DDA into overdrive is the squad’s ability to alpha-wipe a map if you allow it to.

1 Like

Rally the Troops:

  • Provides the selected ally with 4 tiles to move and 2WP (costs 1AP / 5WP), say, an action within a radius of 6 tiles.
    :speaking_head: Wake up soldier, let’s move, move!

No, rage burst really is limited to once a turn. It costs the same as a regular shot (so RB with pistol costs 1 AP, with AR 2AP, etc). And it can’t be combined with quick aim.

Also, there is actually a pretty neat control mechanic with RB, which is that the targeted character animates during the burst. For example, target a Scylla’s head with a Hero pistol (to paralyze her) and she will raise her arms to protect her face, so you will actually hit her only once, the other projectiles will bounce off her arms.

Similarly, a Siren will often wiggle, making most of the shots miss her.

Personally, I don’t think that RB in itself is too powerful at this point, except situationally (for example, to paralyze big Pandas with the Athena) Still, it would be better and cooler with a swipe and limited to auto weapons.

2 Likes

wrote above

Easy, you got a bunch of crabs and tritons close together and you want to mow them down. So you trade accuracy and bullets for a chance to hit more critters.

OK, I stand corrected.

Better to kill one than to scratch the crowd. Moreover, it is possible now, when the targets fall into the big circle of the sight, when they stand nearby or on the same line.

Your position is understandable and good, but this is a scenario for a rather rare case. Which does not exclude its implementation elsewhere.

1 turn cooldown = once per turn? (IMHO even WoTC has some 1 turn cooldowns / once per turn usage)

See @VOLAND :slight_smile:

All abilities I listed are pure once per turn, none of them can be used twice even if you get all your AP back.

I’m not sure about longer cooldowns. The game is more or less fast and furious per design (mostly small maps with long viewranges), to long cooldowns over 2 turns would be mostly mean once per mission. But I really don’t have an answer to this problem except making the maps bigger like lairs, nests or some story missions, then we can talk about longer cooldowns.

Actually I personally have no usage for Rally the Troops, because nowadays I almost play with small squads about 3-4 squaddies. Using RtT is not as good as simply using my spare assault(s) to deal damage.
But I tried it in my first playthroughs with maxed squads and yes, it is ridiculous OP if you specialize your squad this way.

1 Like

Shoot 5 times in 1-3AP

this is a meta alpha-strikes

We have active mechanics of Willpower. But at the moment this is an imbalance.

I’m not going to argue the toss because I don’t have time and I believe we are fundamentally on the same page re: OP squad skills.

What I will say though is that this is symptomatic of the fundamental problem with the game as it stands, because you are quite right: it IS built to promote short alpha-play, and while it is built like that, it will never satisfy players who are looking for a taut tactical game.

2 Likes

@noStas I’m with you … Some people here just want to play with superheroes.
Sorry @VOLAND but 5 “targeted” successive shots with sniper rifle from the other side of the map is “HEAVY OP”. If only because it’s so stupidly easy to use. :wink:

And I know you prefer it this way:
5 shots in one swing with “ONLY” auto-weapons would be logical and fun at the same time!

1 Like