Vehicles reworked

[Aphaz]

Kinda Forgot to put this up when i started this thread :

“The ideas in this Thread are public domain and may be freely used without any consideration, compensation or infringement of intellectual property right. Every person that posts an idea/suggestion/comment…etc. in this thread agrees to the same”

as i said in a previous post, i believe that ground vehicles as they are now, are kinda pointless…if you want to know why, go here:

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…with that in mind, i made a sort of rework of how vehicles, both ground and air, could be better used from both a tactical, and an economy/exploration standpoint.
i’d much appreciate your thoughts on it.

VEHICLES REWORKED, + some extras

…so i would like to suggest a rework of the concept of vehicles along these lines…

all vehicles are grouped into two groups, namely AIR and GROUND vehicles.

• AIR Vehicles - as the name implies, they use flying as their means of travel. used for fast travel, recon, and exploration. only air vehicles can explore points of interest, as well as the usual such as recruit, defend…etc.

• Ground vehicles - as the name implies, ground traveling vehicles. these vehicles may NOT be used to explore points of interest, but can perform all other functions same as air vehicles…which include setting up an area scan. ground vehicles also differ from air vehicles in the way that they travel on the geoscape…also, a ground vehicle w troops parked at a heaven being attacked ALSO Participates in the battle (same as ground vehicles are used now.)

…ground vehicles do not have a certain range as air vehicles, though they still have some speed value. ground vehicles can only travel from 1 KNOWN point to a second KNOWN point, regardless of distance, but ofc, the longer the distance, the more time it takes (maybe have the game “do the math” and tell you “2d13h to point b from here…or something”). a ground vehicle could be subject to something like the chance for 1 ambush per day of travel (wether pandorians or a “rival faction”), with the chance increasing cumulative with days traveled…something like that.

VEHICLES - AIR

i’ll be using the manticore as a reference, so …speed 50% std…means that that vehicle travels half as fast as a manticore on the geoscape…stuff like that…

MANTICORE: speed - standard ; range - standard ; capacity - 6 ; class - transport ; Phoenix Point

the manticore is the starting vehicle and is fine as it is…at most, what i can add is:

*FIGHTER Retrofit - two machine guns are installed. lowers capacity by 1. grants “strafing run” ability once per deployment - vehicle does a strafing run across the battle field damaging some enemies with bursts of gun fire

*TACTICAL Retrofit - missiles are installed. lowers capacity by 1. grants “seek&destroy” ability once per deployment - fire 1 or 2 missiles at the enemy’s position(s), the player has some control in target selection

*BOMBER Retrofit - high payload bomb is installed. lowers capacity by 2. grants “bomb’s away” ability once per deployment - drop 1 large AoE bomb, the bomb may go off center a little so watch where your soldiers are before callin’ it in.

*TRANSPORTER Retrofit - provides +1 or +2 to carrying capacity, allowing more soldiers on board

THUNDERBIRD: speed - 75% std ; range - 125% std ; capacity - 7 ; class - transport ; New Jericho

*FIGHTER Retrofit - same as manticore but uses gauss miniguns.

*TACTICAL Retrofit - similar to missiles, instead uses a barrage of small rockets

*BOMBER Retrofit - instead of high payload, a napaln strike

*TRANSPORTER Retrofit - allows the thunderbird to carry 1 ground vehicle attached to it without reducing troop capacity. the GV may have soldiers inside (for quick transport of a haven defence force), but those soldiers WILL count against max number of soldiers. for example, a thunderbird retrofitted for transport takes on a GV and it’s 4 person crew. only 3 more soldiers can be on board, as the TBird can carry a max of 1 GV and 7 soldiers (max load).

HELIOS: speed - 125% std ; range - 75% std ; capacity - 8 ; class - transport ; Synedrion

*FIGHTER Retrofit - same as manticore but uses laser machine guns

*TACTICAL Retrofit - installs advanced radar. lowers capacity by 1. bonus range for area scans initiated from that location

*EXPLORER Retrofit - installs resting podds. lowers capacity by 2. up to 2 tired soldiers are considered resting for the duration of travel.

*EXPEDITION Retrofit - installs a containment pod. lowers capacity by 2. may house up to 2 pandorans for transport. usefull for enemies you have mind controlled at end of deployment (as they are treated as killed…)

TIAMAT: speed - 50% std ; range - 150% std ; capacity - 9 ; class - transport ; Children of Anu

since this is as stated a living creature as well, maybe…

*ALTAR Retrofit - lowers capacity by 1. allows 1 priest in the squad one use per deployment of the ability “summon swarm” - summons a swarm of mutated animals that wreaks havok on the enemy. low damage but reduce accuracy and AP.

*EVACUATION Retrofit - lowers capacity by 2. launches a slimy tentacle that can be used to flee as if standing on the evacuation field. every soldier can use this ability once and if not evacuated, no more may be summoned in that deployment by that soldier.

*STIMULANT Retrofit - lowers capacity by 1. uses spores while traveling to boost combat spec. of soldiers (+1AP and +10% accuracy for the first 2 turns of deployment)

*PRESERVATION Retrofit - lowers capacity by 2. gives a chance to “remove DEAD status from a soldier”

Extra Retrofit possibilities:

-ER retrofit: lowers capacity by 2. allows 1 soldier to be healed “en route”

-VR retrofit: lowers capacity by 2. allows 1 soldier to be treated “as if training” or uses for some “R ‘n’ R”

GROUND VEHICLES

the speed factor is still based on the manticore, fyi

PX SCARAB: speed - 50% std ; capacity - 3 ; class - fighter/transporter ; Phoenix Point

weapon: twin missiles

RHINOCEROS: speed - 50% std ; capacity - 4 ; class - F/T ; Phoenix Point

weapon: twin-linked strom bolter (hahaha X3)

ARMADILLO: speed - 30% std ; capacity - 2 ; class - fighter ; New Jericho

weapon: cannon & machinegun (it’s basically a tank)

BADGER: speed - 50% std ; capacity - 4 ; class - transporter ; New Jericho

weapon: twin-linked gauss PDW

ASPIDA: speed - 60% std ; capacity - 3 ; class - F/T ; Synedrion

weapon: twin-linked laser cannons

SERPENT: speed - 70% std ; capacity - 5 ; class - transporter ; Synedrion

weapons: none but has improved radar same as TACTICAL retrofit but without capacity loss

MEKILLOT: speed - 30% std ; capacity - 6 ; class F/T ; Children of Anu

only ground transport (it is in essence a 2 ton lizard). grants a squad with a priest the following ability once per deployment:

“mekillot charge” - the beast runs from one end of the map in a straight line untill it exits from from the map on the opposite side. treat as chiron walking (destroys cover/buildings) but also deals trampling damage to EVERYONE (friend and foe) in it’s path. the player may choose from which side the beast emerges.

GENERAL Retrofits for ground vehicles would mostly revolve around different weapon platforms. or maybe faster travel and such.

…any imput is wellcome…

[Aphaz]

…some equipment ideas for “the good guyz”…
WEAPON ATTACHMENTS

same as armor attachments, each weapon may have 1

MELEE Weapon Attachments:

*Chain Blade - shreds armor

*Powered Weapon - weapon adds bonus energy damage

*Poison Unit - weapon is treated as poisoned

*Flamer Unit - weapon is treated as burning

*Viral Injectors - weapon is treated as either viral or incapacitating (paralytic)

RANGED Weapon Attachments:

*Bigger Clip - self explanatory…more shots

*Tactical Sights - increased accuracy

*Laser Pointer - increase crit chance against targeted body part

*HP Ammo - (or the equivalent for gauss/laser) extra damage vs. unarmored, but half damage vs. armored opponent/body part

*AP Ammo - (or the equivalent for gauss/laser) 25% less damage vs. unarmored, but armor bonus is treated as being half strenght (an armor of 50 is treated as 25)

*Dragon Shells - (Hell II Cannon) increase blast area a little. an adjacent enemy suffers half damage.

*Plasma Coil - (gauss weapons, crossbow) converts ammo into plasma…increased damage but may overheat

*Focusing Lenses - (laser weapons) increase either accuracy but lower damage, or vice versa…increase damage decrease accuracy

*Improved Delivery System (IDS) - (acid, poison, viral, and tranq. weapons) the IDS boosts “status effect delivered” by 50%

*Flechette Shells - (shotgun) either cause bleeding, or shred armor, or deal more damage to unarmored opponents…not all of it but along those lines

ARMOR ATTACHMENTS

i know weapon are fun and all, but armor attachments could also include:

*Smoke Module - (any armor) creates a smoke screen centered on the soldier. it covers a set radius depending on which armor it is inserted in (a body armor unit will produce a larger radius of smoke than a helmet unit). the smoke lasts 1 to 3 turns (depending on weather X3 )

*Healing Support - (body armor) allows the soldier to carry a medikit in the body armor slot. it automatically gives aid to the soldier (“free of charge” some classes may have to pay “inventory cost to reload”) at the start of the next soldier’s turn (the soldier may still die before treatment occurs if enough damage is suffered in the enemy’s turn)

*Improved Thrusters - (body armor; heavy) increases range or lowers AP cost to use jump jets

*Jump Thrust - (leg armor) allows a few “high jumps” in any single deployment, before needing recharging (the recharge is automatic and free). gives the soldier the ability to jump on high platforms that are normally unavailable. UNLIKE jump jets, the soldier does not fly! the soldier must stand adjacent to the “wall” and only a straight up jump is possible (for the sake of whatever, the soldier jumps over hand guards, railings…etc.)

*Hidden Blade - (leg armor) the classical hidden blade…allows the soldier to perform a leg attack (melee…) that may apply bleeding. a soldier with a let’s say personal skill called “martial artist” could get “free counter attacks against melee attackers”…or something…

*Tactical HUD - (any helmet) whenever the soldier aims at an enemy, the status of all VISIBLE parts is projected on the soldier’s HUD. this could be as simple as multiple smaller health bars or something along those lines. this reduces the need for the player to have to check manually each visible part to know better which to shoot…lol

*Thermal Module - (any helmet) allows soldier to see invisible enemies as “thermal blobs”, effectively allowing a soldier to shoot at invisible enemies, but Not target individual parts (maybe the weapon held by tritons, as…). range is shorter by day, longer by night.

*Night Module - (any helmet) increases perception range, effective only in night or nest missions

*Head Vulcans - (heavy helmets)…just kidding… but, you know…if the ammo is small enough…rofl. allows the soldier to fire 1 free volley of tiny vulcan bullets. additional accuracy penalty on all shots and increased weight… X3

…Also…
*Recruiting Scientists/Engineers - (neutral heavens Mostly!) even though they do not physically appear in the game (or maybe only during base being attacked), each scientist or engineer aquired adds a +1 to research or manufacturing, BUT consumes 1 food as well.

edit 17. 10.
Equipment:
RIOT SHIELD - self explanatory…not a starting piece of equipment…must/can be “researched” after killing 1. crabman w shield

STUN MACE - does not paralyze…can be researched after defeating a triton with appropriate tentacle…stuff like that

COMBAT KNIFE (or Gauntlet Blade) - or some such starting piece of equipment so as to Not damage our firearms bashing muties…

*Grenade Thrower - (heavy armor) soldier may load a grenade into a special “unit” similar to a mounted weapon. may throw grenade up to 50% farther, but also suffer “inventory penalties”

*Gauntlet Punch Blade (any torso armor) a blade that extends from the forearm part of the armor. if paired with a leg blade, the soldier may attack twice by paying 1AP. soldiers with the “Martial Artist perk” may counterattack with 2 hits for the same AP cost.

*X-Ray Module - (any helmet), 1 Will, allows the soldier to “look through walls” for 1 Turn. any enemy that would normally be hidden due to standing behind a wall would become visible as “Darker/Shadowy version” of themselves (it was tuned for walls and such, after several soldiers ended up “vomiting from all the skeletons present”). because of the stress that causes to the soldier, use of this module costs 1 Will and has a 1 Turn limit on duration.

*Climbing Tool (any torso armor), 1 AP, 1 Will, consisting of a grappling hook and wire and a small motor, all cleverly hidden on the forearms, this tool can allow the soldier to reach higher grounds quickly. the soldier can be “away from destination” only a max of 3 tiles per floor level (there are 4 floors, so to reach the 3rd floor by using this tool, the soldier can not be more than 6 tiles away from the targeted climbing spot…or something…)

*AutoReloader Unit (any torso armor), 1 Will, soldier may place an ammo clip in the armor slot and benefit from 1 free reload. Only Works frp Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Sniper Rifles.

[Yokes]

Some nice ideas here. But I’m not sure if all this would fit game mechanics at this point in development.

[0nton]

About ground devices, I will be satisfied if they will not take a place in Aircraft completely. Kinda attached under aircraft, you know. I mean, for their price and time of producing they are a minimal support help for other soldiers in current mechanics. They don’t deserve even a single slot on board. But if they will have their own separate slot - then ok, they could exist

[Yokes]

Well Manticore looks like having external space for ground vehicles. I wonder why they take soldier seats?

[0nton]

Exactly!

[0nton]

Also I would ask you try to imagine and suggest what exactly properties and capabilities a tank should have to become equivalent to three-four trained soldiers? In frames of current game mechanics of course. We should find a reason to produce it and send our soldiers to sleep
*But at the same time, do not give developers a reason to postpone the release for another year.

[Aphaz]

well, i believe it would fit…basically all you need is an icon for a GV on geoscape, all the rest is already in the game, vehicle-wise.

edit: 17. 10.
as for the rest of the other stuff i wrote…:
-expand inventory by 1 place to give weapons attachment slots…easy

-training screen artwork to fit “new skills for class/personal tree”…easy, it’s the programming/artwork that comes after that that’s harder…which is why i always try to base what i do on “What’s Already In There” (if an enemy already runs and has a shield, isn’t a shield charge skill way easier to execute, since they don’t need to “do it from scratch”)

-draw the GV icons and make game “calculate ETA”…I’d say easy with how geoscape functions even with multiple aircrafts…even as it is…which is to say very good at doing it’s job

-programming and artwork…not so easy, that’s why i’m trying to make it as easy as possible to adapt to the “current settings of the game”. if you re read what i posted and think about it like this…

[Yokes]

Currently I see vehicles as fast and well armored units which don’t get tired (no stamina or will power) and are not affected by many other factors like poison, panic, mind control, fire etc. so can be good countermeasures if enemy will overuse such attacks.

This of course need balancing as currently 3 soldiers, even in the middle of their skill tree, are better. Probably it is also because soldier skills are way too overpowered and make them half-gods on the battlefield. Vehicles also need some constant attack or way to be useful after firing their powerful weapons. Currently Scarab becomes useless after 2 turns. If he had an option to use some small gun except missiles then it would be way better unit.

Oh and all bigger units should have some ability to squish smaller units. As I wrote in my feedback it is really annoying that worms or mindfraggers can hold your armored vehicle. Same goes for Arthrons, Tritons and human soldiers as they should take damage when approched by moving bigger unit.

[0nton]

Of course, I did not think about the option of nerfing the soldiers to such an extent that the three became equal to one tank. Perhaps, for this they will have to completely remove all their skills, leave them at the first level, and each one must break one arm and leg before the fight

[Aphaz]

continuing where i left with scientists and engineers…
when idle, that is no research is made and/or nothing is being crafted atm, each scientist produces 1 tech component per day while engineers produce 1 material component.
so having 5 scientists and say 10 engineers would produce 5 tech and 10 mat every day NOT spent researching / manufacturing.
soldiers should also be a little cheaper to obtain.

…also…
this simple rework of food could be of more use:
every base will have 1 starting food production facility as it serves to Feed The Base (NOT soldiers, scientists, and engineers). any Additional facility constructed goes toward feeding soldiers, scientists, and engineers…with any excess (both + or -) affecting the number in the parenthesis.

[Yokes]

@Aphaz

when idle, that is no research is made and/or nothing is being crafted atm, each scientist produces 1 tech component per day while engineers produce 1 material component.

That would eliminate need for trade with factions later in the game. You would produce such amount of resources that you wouldn’t bother with other means of obtaining them. I would use idle scientist and engineers to speed up healing, boosting area scans, enchancing detection of aliens etc (so boost for other buildings).

[Aphaz]

i agree it could end like that, but you know you wouldn’t find THAT many of them…geoscape-ly speaking…so at most 2 or 3 total…and that would be lucky if…though i agree about speedin’ up healing and stuff…nice idea!

EDIT: …also…i think most players look at vehicles as a single entity, not as a part of the whole, so they fail to see how GVs can add to the game as a whole.

for example: what do you think an Anu heaven would think when they see a New Jericho tank, piloted by Phoenix Point soldiers parked outside their home…? (you just came to defend this haven, But They Don’t Know That…lol).

that’s also why i said soldiers should be cheaper, (and in my in previous posts on another thread) monsters should get more skills and stuff and be more unforgiving…as they are now, even barracks (living quarters) don’t have much use as they are mostly empty and the soldiers rest even if on board vehicle…sooo…

[SpiteAndMalice]

I can see the conversation:

“Sorry soldiers we can’t fit you three on the flight this time, we’re taking this ground vehicle instead.”
“But, sir, couldn’t we like… just sit inside it?”

[Aphaz]

lol…also an interesting non-logic…it takes up 3 space, may drive 3 soldiers, but nooo, they can’t enter the GV while it’s being transported via air…like lol

edit: though it is so probably so players don’t end up ALL in Anu Tiamat with 9 soldiers inside 3 vehicles…that would make a small platoon, right…lol

[0nton]

Right now the price of soldier includes his armor and ammunition. Sometimes i would like to buy naked assault, because their stuff should be scrapped immediately. But mostly I hire snipers and all other guys for their equip to save time of my workshops. So, probably, is better to have a choice how to hire soldiers - naked or equiped. Hello, Jagged Alliance!

[Aphaz]

yeah, that could also work…JA stayle

[SpiteAndMalice]

@0nton

So, probably, is better to have a choice how to hire soldiers - naked or equiped.

I was just thinking similar, but in relation to how many perks a solider might arrive with.

Early game you might prefer to recruit cheaper units with less perks, but late game, you want the more expensive guys who have a better skill set.

[Aphaz]

this is my current A - Team (plus an extra for mutation fans)…they ride in a thunderbird just defending havens and clearing nests (which you can do with vehicles other than a manticore. you can also start diplomatic missions, and scavenge discovered sites. you can not recruit and explore so it is a good idea to already have a “full crew” waiting at the base if you want to craft and ofc use a different flyer than the manticore)

edit: they should make it visible on the equipment screen the summ of all your bonuses/equipment, like…:
SPEED: +4 (26) the modifier (and the max distance)
ACCURACY: -8% (total from all equipment/skills/perks) / +17% shotguns (+25% shotguns - perk)
STEALTH: 20% (total from all equipment/skills/perks)
+any other relevant info that you can get only inside deployment (lol)

[samshell]

Seeing your troops brings me a question: is ever a reason for not puting a sniper helmet in every soldier? It seems to be, by far, the only reasonable choice for head protection.