Missing option: Vehicle RAMMING

I remember back in BB days vehicles had a “fast attack forward” - vehicle ramming. It was quite striking attack and could kill all units in some direction. I really miss this feature, and if there are others with similar opinion, would vote for all vehicles to have it as an option.

I find it strange that vehicles can now run through buildings and obstacles but have to go around enemies, even worms.

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Agree totally with you but was told it caused too many problems on maps etc. Personally I think it should be reintroduced👍

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At least let them roll over worms.

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+1 for ramming…

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Ramming was great in the initial pack - in part because the enemy never had vehicles. If the shoe was on the other foot I think people would be screaming about balance.

As an idea though - the vehicles are meant to be run by an AI (as per intro), so in theory is it’s a true AI it could learn, or have learning unlocked with a synedrion research (as they clearly have a learning AI). That may open an avenue to have it learn to override it’s collision detection system and other tricks - adding your feature back in, and also stopping New Jericho using the ability to instant squad wipe you.

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Compromise solution:
When any vehicle approaches an adjacent worm tile, it immediately explodes. The vehicle is damaged, but does not stop and continues to move at full distance.

So he doesn’t want to crush / Ram the Mutants? Oh, how squeamish.

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Need a mechanic to simulate a collision / pushback.

  • It is possible to let the unit move 2 tiles as opposed to the vehicle’s movement vector (depending on the type of vehicle and mutant).
  • Assign damage to both material bodies (depending on the type of vehicle and mutant).

The variant from BB2 is problematic, because Taran needs speed + distance, it’s more like racing than tbs. And in the example above, this is Push to One target, which is neat and predictable, probably.

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The bigger problem with vehicles is their lack of ammo. They should have a lot of ammo like real AFVs. 6, maybe 10 reloads. Even better: a real cannon that could take on Scylla(?) from range. There should be plenty of stuff laying around from the old days. If the Russians can find WW2 tanks today in rivers and swamps; remove them; and rebuild them to working order, then desperate people of the Havens should have the opportunity to rescue an occasional tank or scout car.

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Totally agree with you, the vehicles, especially NJ should be like an Infantry Fighting Vehicle along the lines of a Bradley/BMP/Piranha.

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Would it really considering vehicle takes 3 soldier places, which is biggest imbalance in its use currently?

Killing some late biffed up “used to be frequent enemy” by running it over,
might cause cheering and standing ovation, I could imagine :slight_smile:

Middle level enemies like Sirens and Chirons are kind of alien replacement for vehicles. And factions have theirs.

Maybe its right time for alien Lovercratian “vehicles”, but please, some improved snipers and rifles for us, too :slight_smile:

It would be best to provide some research and production of improved vehicle weapons (or replacement of current) and production of ammo. Vehicles could have reload options and inventory too. Possibility to fix improved weapon to any vehicle would make less difference (only in name, armor, speed and carrying capacity).

In general, vehicles are nicely introduced, and quite a refreshment. But could be used a lot more :slight_smile:

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I don’t think that they are too weak for 3 soldier spaces. I’m going more and more with Vehicles, almost in any team. In my last campaign I had only one aircraft without one and this was my fully trained “A-Team” in a Helios.

The advantages of Vehicles compared to recruits in my opinion:

  1. They are a rolling safe space for my squishy squaddies, especially the Armadillo is able to be a real tank, even against bombard Chirons or Scyllas.

  2. They are cheaper than 3 recruits with equipment and (actually) don’t need any ammo to build.

  3. In the early game for me they are simply overpowered. I’m able to finish many of the first missions with one Scarab on its own (the soldiers are sometimes only spectators). The first what I almost do in any campaign is to build at least one Scarab.

  4. After passing the midgame, where their weapons are not longer that powerful, they can keep the pace with an assisting Technician.

    • If an Armadillo don’t have to move, it can shot theoretically 6 times per turn, 2 on its own and 4 per Remote Control. Even Scyllas don’t like that. (No, more technicians are not very useful, it has only 8 ammo).

    • The Scarab cannot do that in this form, because rockets can generally only shot once per turn. But it’s rockets are still a pain for many enemies and you can freely move around and let the Technician make the single salvo.

    • The Aspida is one of the best tools to ‘farm’ food or mutagens. With the help of a Technician it is able to paralyse several Pandorans per turn (my max was 4 in one turn, assisted slightly by an passenger equipped with a Neurazer).

    • The Technician is also very handy to repair vehicles in the battle to make them even more tanky. So they are for me always a must have not only of their 1AP healing, restoring body parts and turret handling but also to assist vehicles.

But regardless of my above mentioned own positive opinions about vehicles, improvements are always welcome. Reload would be my favourite, 4 salvos for the Scarab is not much, and ramming would also be nice, at least against worms and other small targets. I think it should come in form of researchable improvements, because as I said above, I think in the early stages they are already very strong and reliable.

One part is “planned” for a while now, so vote it up that we can get it ASAP :wink: :

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I think the problem here is the lack of a Penalty / Strict Restriction in an endless mission = Vehicle becomes a universal solo Invader.

How do you limit the time / damage on a mission for a Vehicle?

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No free reloads, reloads take 2AP for gun ammo, 4AP for missles, thus cannot be constantly used, as proposal. Focus enemy granade fire on vehicles so they can weaken, and if coordinated, even destroy it.

Two ideas to make vehicles not too powerful and that the reload comes with a cost:

  • The turrets are already weak spots of the vehicles, the AI should primarily shot these so that they are out of business after some hits. Actually it seems to me that enemies mostly shot on centre of mass, I never had a disabled turret.

  • Reload could only be done by a soldier in the vehicle and cost 2 AP for the soldier and the vehicle cannot shot in the same turn or all current AP of the vehicle are lost after a reload. Then one soldier and the vehicle are both out of combat for a whole turn (exit a vehicle costs already 2 AP). And also a vehicle cannot do missions completely alone.

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Possibly only a Technician/Engineer can reload them?

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That would suit the technician well, but I would still rather not tie it to a faction class. I think reloading should also be possible if you don’t want to get involved with NJ.

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at the moment I feel vehicle opportunity cost is still too high, especially for the mutog variants. but, they are not weak as a combatant, and they are insanely economical.

now the scarab has 4 turns worth of combat ammo that is the majority of the turns a mission lasts, missiles with power levels that are roughly on par with what you get using endgame NJ rocket tech, but without having to splash like 12 tech and 20 mats per shot you fire. a ton of armor, a good amount of HP, a ton of immunities and it costs about as much as buying 2 heavy body armors. for what you get…that is very cheap.

however, it does not equate 3 fully kitted soldiers in power and action economy…so your power level per spot in the battle will be lower once you manage to get kitted experienced troops. vehicles are also more affected by terrain then the soldiers, so they have missions where they are simply less favorable to employ (any mission using the nest tile set).

being able to squish worms or effectively bash enemies with a bumper ram shouldn’t change that much, 1 AP for a 50 dmg/ 100 shock ram (without any “bonus movement”)…np… but having reloads would drastically tilt the power level of the unit, depending on how you implement it, and what you allow (the technicians monopoly to “grant turns” to turrets, spider drones and vehicles is very powerful. I think that as soon as the vehicle ammo limits are out the door, the already very powerful technician would become a must have in conjunction with a vehicle) on the flip side, if munitions have to be build and because of that have a price…it can put an extra stressor on early economics… offsetting the cheap power that currently buys them their slots on a plane.

so in effect, as long as the techy is so powerful with the mechanical vehicle weapons by allowing it to greatly compress damage per turn on top of being the only class that allows the vehicle to really use its tanking capability, you can’t really boost vehicles too much. a technician problem, but because of the nature of the class one that affects all mechanical vehicles. If you boost the vehicles power by adding reloads, its almost certain remote control will have to be limited or nerfed with regards to vehicle weapons. if you want to promote vehicle tanking, you need more options then just the technician arms to repair them in the field.

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I agree and to be honest, I like it as it is with the scarab, one rocket salvo per turn and that’s it. The only plus of having a technician with a Scarab is that you can move for all AP and then launch the one rocket salvo by the tech. Maybe it would not a bad idea to limit the shots also for Armadillo and Aspida, maybe 2 per turn.

Good points, but I have found vehicles to be very effective in nests. I didn’t think they would be, but I was very wrong. The Armadillo basically secures a flank all by itself.

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How about vehicles having a “backup” weapon like a less powerful turret coax assault type mg? So no reloads but the equivalent of another trooper?.

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