[Feedback BB5] Impressions and Feedback

Phoenix Point Game Feedback
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Well, after putting a few hours into BB5, I felt I should give you feedback in the hopes it could be unique.
Please feel free to ignore it all, as you probably already have plans for a few of my suggestions.

OVERALL FEEDBACK:
The game was good to play, I had to hold myself not to play again and again because I really don’t like the idea of spoiling more of the final game. However, some things felt repetitive and some felt too “mechanical” (as described in a few items below).

POSITIVE ASPECTS:

  • Footstep sounds and music are great for immersion.
  • Stealth/encounter system is just what I expected!
  • Management depth is great (I’m counting things I already know are missing from BB).
  • Animations, environment destruction, overall art is spectacular, triple A+ quality.

THINGS TO IMPROVE/SUGGESTIONS:

  • Enemy AI. Most of the time, I felt like I was playing dummies. They shoot, but they could prioritize weapons targeting, snipers, etc. Just what most players would do.
  • Ladders everywhere. I understand it adds to the tactical layer, to be able to get the higher ground, but I think it damages immersion. I remember in the old XCOM games, where you had to navigate through a building to be able to get to the roof, and this could reward you with really creepy moments. Now, almost every building and house has an external ladder. I really miss the classic xcom elevators :slight_smile:
  • Geoscape exploration: IMHO, it felt too automatic. I mean, click on a circle, explore, scan, find more circles to click. I think the decision of going somewhere should be important. I think missions could be a surprise. For random sites. the player should decide if the squad is deployed without knowing if there is a real mission available. It could be an ambush, or maybe they could have anti-air defenses and be a thread to the transport.
  • Phoenix is overpowered from the start. I think the game will start too easy the way it is. I mean, I quickly built grenade launchers and took an entire map down when things got hard. I also think the armors are just too cool. I mean, unless you have something really spectacular in store for the late game, of course :slight_smile:
  • I think the game could start with a mission where the player finds and gains access to the first phoenix project base. This would seriously add an immersive story begin.
  • Auto-opening doors, please no! :slight_smile:

Just trying to help here. Keep up the good work and congratulations for everything so far!

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    • enemy AI is fine…most of the time you’re fighting grunts that get spawned by the dozens (like Tyranid cannon fodder “does tactics…lol Xd”).
    • I agree as far as ladders go, THEY’RE EVERYWHERE (the invasion the THE ladders…). they do make jump jets kinda pointless. good idea with the interior stairs though :+1:
    • well, ambushes do happen when you’re exploring, but you miss the point, imho. it’s about time passing (for everything else, from building to r&d to happen “simultaneously”…i think). there are some “insta encounters” when you enter a random city (it’s every now and then so it might be a small % chance or smt.). as far as “making exploration better#” (lol), my 2 cents would be…:
      1 - more varied “exploration encounters”. so far (and I AM NOT complaining…:joy:) i’ve seen: scavenge (fight with pandos for loot), ambush (getting ambushed by pandos), abandoned whatnot (you just get something or nothing…usually it’s something), abandoned whatnot with effort (you alwayst “get something” but pay with some “effort”), extra gun (you find an extra soldier “for free”. i got the technician…dunno if there are others.), “faction site” (gives you the choice for some extra faction points, both + and sometimes -).
      so what i would add to the list would be:
  • ambush by “rival faction” (some faction hotheads go after you 'cuz u pissed them off or something)
  • add more chances (or a chance, if there is none) for a “deployment” type mission when we enter a Known town (as in was on the map already)
  • use the “abandoned whatnot with effort” type for deplyment missions (fighting human “grave robbers” or mutated animals, as in not pandorians, but plain “starship troopers” bugs or something…maybe in mist areas)
  • more different “free soldier” encounters (not as in more of them, but as in more different soldier archtypes).
  • ambushes by “starship troopers” type of mutated monster bugs…maybe in mist areas.
  • “old world army fort” (may be fitted with weapons or something and is in essence an old fort. it would have just living quarters, maybe a training hall and landing pad…if bigger. troops could be stationed there and it would function as a base, just NOT a Phoenix Point base)
  • “old world army hospital” (similar to fort, only has a med facility instead of the training hall or something)
  • “old world army manufactorum” (LOL) (similar to those before, this one “produces either materials OR/AND tech materials”)
  • “old world army R&D ; Food Factory” (same as the 2 above, only for labs and food).
    in the end, my 2 cents would be a little fewer citties, and some more Random Encounters (preferably ones that require deployment…maybe add a stamina bonus for high strenght or as perk)
    • I’ll agree that the weapons are quite powerfull, but as you said, you put a few hours. I put quite more of those, and it gets quite harder later and the pandorans get out in greater number so it gets more tactical…though some better balance between all weapons, factions included would be nice… even a +/- 5 difference in pistol damage or lasers working better vs squishy tritons, but worse vs armored crabs…though with more enemies (in more different assemblies, hopefully :joy:) who knows how powerful phoenix point tech will be…
      WHAT I would like to see/have is:
  • maaaybeee a lvl 10 cap
  • “personal skill tree having at least 6 (if cap is 10, 4 if cap is 7) skills” (being placed randomly is cool, just 3 is too little, imho)
  • soldiers you pick up from different factions having “faction based personal skill tree” (a NJ heavy could know how to use a PDW or Mech Arms, though only for attacking or removing fraggers, not the heal ability that Engi has, or a SYND assault could know how to use a drone pistol or crossbow. an ANU priest could know the ways of da hammer, or something)
  • More different “personal tree” skills (as in more than just combat/inventory/healing related skills, but maybe along the lines of “personal quirks” also…for example, a SYND assaulter could have a personal skill called “Matrix Dodge” that is basically a Dash move that gives a dodge bonus/chance vs enemy overwatch…something along these lines)
    • just play with tutorial on…that’s what you get…srslly! and it is quite nice, gives you time to appreciate the finer details…:grin:
    • tottally agree with you…make them like in x-com…0 AP (or 0,5) to open/close, if you open them you can go in stealthy. if you bust through them, you make noise (could be use to draw attention if entering from two points simultaneously…who knows)

that was just my 2 cents on your 2 cents. :crazy_face:

now, here’s my 2 cents:

  • some enemies (namely the thick armor plated ones) could have a skill such as “Adamantium Plates” that halves damage suffered from long range attacks…or something to reduce heavy/sniper lethality…

  • weapons could also get attachments like armors (different ammo or something)

  • transport vehicles being “upgradable” with weapon systems (may call air strike once per combat or smt), defence systems (chaff and flares for those peski human ambushes), passenger seats (an extra 1 or 2 wouldn’t hurt…just send more enemies), or MGV support (may attach 1 Medium Ground Vehicle without decreasing room for soldiers)

  • more different types of “Ground Support Vehicles” (killer drones or ammo/supplies carrying drone…and stuff)

  • faction enclaves being less concentrated and more mixed together (that would help with the “clan wars” between the factions. also, enclaves could only be more frequent near the capital city…that is each faction Should Have a Capital, where the boss lives…well, Synderion has tree bosses so maybe they get 3 capitals…lol. Anu would get 2, 1 for each faction…or something. )

that’s it for now…cya

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continuing my 2 cents (with a pocket full o’ change :crazy_face:)

    • classes / archetypes… so far i’ve only seen NJ with 4 classes of soldiers. dunno if snapshot plans on doing more of them, but here’s some suggestions:

Phoenix Point - Rigger - based on Shadowrun’s class of the same name, this class uses drones as attack and support. the soldier sacrifices his own APs to manually control his drones. drones have 3 modes: FOLLOW (just follows soldier), OFF (remains in place, requires time to return to rigger depending on distance), and ON (uses 1 AP from Rigger to gain 2APs worth of actions). Rigger use an SMG as backup weapon (same as PDW but with Phoenix Point ammo instead of gaus). there are two types of drones, ATTACK (wether ground or air, these drones are used to perform attacks against enemies. each drone has it’s own set of weapons), or SUPPORT (wether carrying supplies or administering healing/boosters these drones perform non combat duties)

Synderion - Samurai - heavy melee class, your typical tank, uses a great sword, or weapon & shield. uses crossbow as backup weapon.

Disciples of Anu - Champion - technically a mutant/X-men. what would distinguish this class is that ALL available mutations would be grouped and each single champion soldier would get a random choice of 6 (9 if level cap is 10) mutations that would be randomly placed in the skill tree. so technically no 2 champions should be identical…

Neutral Enclaves - Random Hero - a very rare find that can be found ONLY in neutral enclaves. either a former faction bigwig (in which case skills will mostly match the original template, but starting level will be higher), or a Random Jesus created by a random selection and placement of skills (much like the champion, only not with mutations but common skills from all soldier archetypes, factions included! )

    • Rebuilding home - allow rebuilding of destroyed enclaves. allow decision of who gets to settle the newly rebuilt place: Old Settlers (gets you + points with faction…etc.), New Settlers (old faction disapproves, new one approves. can also choose Neutral Enclave…no disapproval from factions, may grow to become “the Phoenix Point Faction”).
    • EXTRA SKILLS - just some skills for the sake of content…:grin:

AKIMBO > Assault > pulls out a second (if carrying) rifle or shotgun and shoots both weapons at same target…lower accuracy but increased damage.

BUNKER > Heavy > locks down in place until skill deactivated. increased accuracy and range…immovable (no dodge / evasion of any kind).

DOUBLE TAP > Sniper > fire twice at same target, second shot costs 50% less AP. short range only!

FOLLOW UP PROTOCOLS > Rigger > sends a repeat action command to the last drone used. the drone will repeat it’s last command it performed (attack, heal…etc.) and against/at the same target. the repeated command costs 50% less AP.

SWALLOWTAIL STRIKE > Samurai > a short dash and strike. does more damage, but may trigger overwatch (if samurai is hit/shot while dashing, the skill is nullified).

WIDE SWING > Disciples of Anu Brawler > hit 3 tiles worth of enemies, the selected target and the tiles on both sides arre hit in one attack. reduced accuracyfor achance of hittingup to 3 enemies at once.

DISARM > Anu Priest > after gaining mental control of enemy, force said enemy to throw away their weapon(s), if applicable. if not, then the controlled enemy may be forced to break their own weapon…lower chance for monsters with grafted weapons, such as crabmen’s machinegun.

PEEK-A-BOO > Infiltrator > activate to allow infiltrator to move to melee range and have a 95% chance to remain hidden. lower chance by 50% if moving towards an enemy’s front, and by 30% if moving from an enemy’s flank.

EXO-KICK > Engineer > exo legs only. a MightyFoot stomping attack. knocks enemy back unless enemy is size large or greater. may be also used to squish worms and fraggers flat…splat!!! :crazy_face:

…there you go…hope this helps :joy:

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continuing along the “what i’d like to see…” road:

  • crabmen with pincer / MG and shield / grenade combos
  • some type of pandoran flyers
  • maybe some ground transports (slow, little soldier space, short travel distance, but cheap and may be armed)
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there will be

I prefer something opposite - fast and airborn. I already have it in my feedback, but I’m not sure when I will post it.

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there’s already fast and airborne, that was just for the sake of an extra.

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Well, not that kind of fast what I’m thinking of. :wink: I will post it on sunday I suppose, because I’m far from my personal computer.

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(wishlist continued)

  • maybe some skills for enemies as well. also GIVE 'EM A BITE ATTACK! so far, as soon as you tear the hand that holds the weapon, crabman get into “chicken mode”…just fleeing, mostly…
    or a KICK ATTACK…failing that maybe a BODY SLAM…eh?
  • some enemies could be “mutated wrongly”, such as (I’ll keep using crabmen as example…):
  • two pincers (skill “Berzerker” - use all 4 APs to land 5 attacks against 1 or more enemies in HtH range)
  • two machine guns (skill “Gunzerker” (yeah, i know, lol) - uses all 4 APs to empty both clips in a wide cone area hitting ALL (scenery included) in it’s path), or (skill “Ever Vigilant” - may fire 2 overwatch shots)
  • two grenade launchers (skill “Carpet Bombing” - use all 4 APs to fire a barage of 3 grenades. the grenades land in 3 random spots in a medium wide area)
  • two shields (skill “Bulldozer” - same as heavy’s body slam, just add scenery dismantling same as chiron’s walk)

I mean, just immagine 2 crab bombers advancing behind a guy with two shields, carpet bombing your position…now that’s a pinch. the way things are now it’s kinda too easy…only numbers so far bring a challenge…even invisible squiddies can be countered by a simple spider drone gun…just nerfing equipment is a stopgap measure.

what we need is combat that will really require tactical thinking and maneuvering to win, not just “tear them arms off and watch them bleed like headless chicken” game mode

“Extra Arms” (pun intended)

  • Sword arm (any pandorian) - skill: Launge - launges up to 1AP worth of mavement and impale opponent
  • Axe arm (crabman only) - skill: Hack ‘n’ Slash - hits up to 3 enemies in HtH range, damages armor as well
  • Worm Flinger (any pandorian that can hold a weapon) - grenade launcher that fling worms. the worm has a 50% chance to explode on landing. if not, it can be killed normally.
    • Bonestorm Worm - shrapnel worm, may cause bleeding
  • Hammer arm (any non-tritons) - skill: Hammer Time - hits 1 opponent and causes “stomp” effect
  • Bone Shredder (any pandorian that can hold a weapon) - shotgun that fire bone shrapnel…can cause bleeding, or be poisoned/diseased
  • ‘Splodin’ Hornet(s) (chiron and such enemies only) - Homing Hornet(s): launch a swarm of hornets or a giant sized one. they hover for 1 turn selecting their target (and is the only time it can be neutralized). it then bee-lines (lol) straight to it’s intended target and goes kaboom or some other appropriate splatter-y ending…
3 Likes
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Nice ideas here. The more mutations and limb types, the better :slight_smile: Some of them could be more frequent and some of them very unique.

1 Like
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Adding my BB5 feedback and questions to this thread. Hope you do’nt mind.

First off I think the game is looking great and you all deserve a pat on the back. Almost there :smile:

  • Played around 20 hours of BB5(real-time). No crashes, but have had several game freezes, all of them in tactical mission at the end of enemy turn. Have to reboot. Loading last save prior to tactical deployment and trying again seem to result in same problem. If load last save and go elsewhere even other tactical mission the problem is avoided.
  • Recruiting is painful. Picking them up, dropping them at bases is far too time consuming when havens are under threat etc. I cannot believe my transport is the only transport available in this universe. Let me recruit from a distance if needed, assign them a base and have them travel themselves i.e. arriving nhours/ndays later, like the re-assigning of aircraft in XCOM.
  • Love the variety of weapons etc. available, but that inventory screen is a bit of a mare. Others have suggested improvements, so I will not duplicate.
  • Reloading weapons with available ammo prior to mission start. These are professional soldiers. They have just spent days/hours in their base on the Manticore. They have ammo available in base, in backpack and/or body. Only a numpty would fail to reload their weapon before deploying if ammo readily available.
  • If I have understood it correctly, the amount of equipment you can store is governed by the amount of storage built across all your bases. However all equipment appears to be available to all personnel regardless of their location i.e. any base or manticore. Not sure that makes sense especially given personnel are not treated the same way. If I told my base personnel to stay in the store instead of the living quarters would they also become universally available. Joking aside I think how personnel and equipment are handled needs to be consistent being either universally available or base/vehicle specific (I personally the later will be the most frustrating albeit the most realistic).
  • When I go to protect a haven under attack there are supposed to be some haven military under siege, usually not many by the time I get there! There is no sign of them on the ground only the civilians scurrying around. Guessing this has still to be added and work something like the allied forces in XCOM2.
  • Manufacturing. Even if I cannot afford something I am capable of building I should be able to see its details i.e. description, stats etc.
  • Neuraser. Do chances of successful paralysis increase with state of enemy health i.e. the lower the better? Is it possible to paralyse in one shot because my poor guys always seems to get a face-full of bullets at least once if not more?
  • Return fire - Need a toggle please as others have suggested.
  • I would really like the freedom to zoom right in to see all these wonderful graphics in close-up. It’s clearly possible as we see them occasionally during face-hugger attacks and return fire. Something akin to Company of Heroes where the scroll button zooms you right in and out of the scene would be great.
  • Over-watch facing does not always reflect the direction of the over-watch.

All for now.

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You need to overcome maximum durability of enemy. So you need to hit many times before disabling enemy. In case of smalles enemies you need to hit them between 2 and 4 times (so 1 turn for properly skilled Assault should be sufficient). In case of tougher enemies you will need to do it more times. Formula for number of hits with Neurazer is round_up( ( max_HP / 10 + number_of_turns_you_try_to_paralyze - 1 + number_of_turns_you_plan_to_have_enemy_paralyzed ) / 8 ), so for example enemy with 170 HP will need to be hit 3 times and it will be paralyzed for 1 turn.

There is also condition that you need to deal at least 1 point of damage for Neurazer to apply any paralysis effect.

It is better to use Synedrion weapons to paralyse enemy on distance.

EDIT: Previous values were for Synedrion paralyzing handgun not for Neurazer. Sorry about that.

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Thanks for info on Neuraser.

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what i mostly meant by this is the fact that MGVs are mostly pointless in a deployment…imo
and by pointless i mean the fact that most deployment maps are small enough that an assault with will 10 and speed 20 can dash from 1 end to the other in just one turn, making loosing turns to get in/out of a transport meaningless, again imho.
instead they could be used as transports same as manticore, but with decreased range…
what they could be also good for is stationing a small force at a heaven that is often attacked without reducing your ability to explore, as building flyers cost more mats, but mostly more time to craft.
so having a cheaper alternative could facilitate exploration as such.

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Will there be more updates for BB5 or are they focusing on release ?

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Adding to this thread, no point in making another one. Been away for work this whole time so only just got my hands on BB5.

My 2 cents on BB5:

  • Graphics are vastly improved and the whole game is looking much more refined!

  • The alien nests now seem 100x harder. Might be because I was so used to the BB4 ones and knew them off by heart… or the alien spam… or the new alien types and the mist… but wow. I have had my ass kicked a couple times. And that is a good thing.

  • New triton aliens are great, cant wait to see what the end game has in it.

  • Have had a few missions never end bug. I am sure it will get sorted before release as bugs get squished.

Room for improvement

  • When research is done and we just get a wall of text, would be nice to have it read to you. It will stop players seeing all the text and not bothering to read it, then missing something really important in the process. Some of the research findings have been well thought through and are interesting so far.

When players have a wall of text read out to them, they will usually listen if they are interested. If there is a wall of text, a lot more will not bother to read it.

  • The mist. It is a great idea but needs to be changed a little. Not seeing an enemy in the mist until you are on them is a PITA. Also when attacking an enemy base and there are a bunch of Tritons… they all poop out the mist on their first turn leaving the player just looking for where the hell the map is. Maybe if the mist is strong for 2-3 turns then fades every turn after. Or the outer perimeter of the mist shrinks after 2-3 turns.

Over all the game is looking great so far and continues to head in the right direction.

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@DazzD: I agree that research needs polishing, but something along those lines (iirc) is set for next update…and, btw, what you call a “wall of text” takes 30sec to read…and having someone just read them costs A LOT…so I’d rather that money be spent on improving the game…though a background pic would be nice/appreciated…not to mention faster obtainable :grin:
and as far as the mist goes…it’s supposed to be a PITA, as U put it. that’s why aside from the fact that you can target parts, you can also “clear some mist with a grenade”…or use an incendiary…soooo, how about some effort…nom!
so far, the ONLY enemy that manages to “make me sweat” a little are sniper tritons with pain chameleon…EVERYTHING else so far has ended being target practice…to me at least…if you need tips, ask…:grin::+1:

what it lacks so far is the AI having more of a “Hive Mentality”, maybe snapshot should buy the Tyranids book and read it for some inspiration (WH 40k Tyranids, ofc) for the AI…and i mean that in a good way, btw.

also, the enemy having skills of their own…might yield extra research material for equipment and stuff. and so, along those lines…:

“Shield Dash” - Crabman w Shield(s) - a Dash movement while holding up their shield. costs will like Dash does, but allows the crabman to “soak up some damage from overwatch shots”

“Entangling Arm” - Triton - the triton has a stretchy tentacle instead of an upper arm. ranged attack that while doing lesser damage has a chance of “entangling itself around the soldier” preventing that soldier from acting (may be removed similar to fragger). the triton remains visible and stationary for as long as the soldier is entangled but gets an accuracy bonus to shoot or an automatic hit in melee gange…

“Advanced Overwatch” - The Good Guys - allow a sniper with the skill that lowers overwatch by 1AP to fire 2 overwatch shots with a sniper if they don’t move (that is spend all 4APs on overwatch). the same could be done with other weapons depending on APs. it would be interesting to see for example , a sniper emptying a pistol clip because 10 different enemies passed through his overwatch field so he took 1 shot at each…lol…

:grin:

adendum:
“Harpoon Arm” - Triton - similar to Entangling arm this is a ranged weapon but it does more damage and has a chance to pull the soldier into the triton’s melee range.

“Shrapnel Armor” - Crabman - upon death, crabmen with the big shell on their backs have a chance to “explode as a frag grenade” or something along those lines…

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Thanks Aphaz, I have only just started playing BB5, sounds like I still have plenty to look forwards to. Now I have played a handful of extra missions I have worked out a bit more.

You are right about the extra time and cost to the research. I guess they have a ton of finishing and polish they already need to get done. This is just an extra that is not as critical as squishing the bugs out.

Came across a new alien ability last night where they mind controlled 2 (out of 4) squaddies. That was a tough spot to get out of.

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that’s the siren (the brown snake-y one). sniper headshot (mostly 2. or 2 cannon shots to slow it). it automatically mind controls your guys if within 10 tiles, iirc. the Anu priest has a similar ability.

as for tritons, always take out their chameleon ability 1st, silent echo (head) is next. failing that go for the weapon (if they carry sniper gaus, grenades work just fine if you don’t vave a GLauncher crafted)

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Is this important?

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in a way…if u can disable this then even if they become invisible, as soon as they shoot…since it is not silenced…they become easier to spot, or they become outright visible after they shoot at you For The First Time…
with silent shot they can almost empty a hand cannon in your face without u seeing them (exagerating, ofc, but you get the picture… :grin: )
…almost forgot to mention the loss of will, and i don’t just mean the immediate loss. a disabled head Lowers Max Will Points by often as much as -8…and they use will fo’ skill as well, at least some of them, so…
:wink: