Unable to defeat lair and can two squads attack it?

Phoenix Point Hints and Tips
1

Currently have two lairs on my map close together and constantly attacking havens within their proximity.
Tried to destroy one lair and replayed the mission 4 times and failed miserably each time.
Tried holding my ground but it seems to be endless waves of enemies while the bastard chimera on the other side of the map constantly fires three acid worms at me every turn.
I tried using the heavy and his jump pack to find the spawnery and attacking it but again, acid worms fired at him and then mind controlled by a siren.
Tried firing and move to constantly push up but just get picked off :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Should I have a go at the other lair? Have I just got a rock hard lair? Are they all like this? Could I have both my manticores land and have 12 operatives?
Any tips please!!!

2

The same thing happens to me, what you have to do is wait for the game to be fixed because right now it is a disaster, there is no other option.

3

You are limited to 8 soldiers, even with 2 full manticoress.
Chirons can shoot 5 turns and then are basically useless. If they throw worms only, you shouldn’t try to kill it (less respawn). You can bash the worms, which saves AP and ammo.
I usualy send an assault with lots of speed and willpower and dash him past the enemies (saving 50 skill points by not dual classing helps).
It’s good to have all ennemies revealed though so that “dash” doesn’t get cut by spotting an enemy.
Use snipers to remove the enemies ranged attacks but avoid killing them (avoid respawn).
Disabling Siren’s head prevents her from doing anything but melee attacks.

3 Likes
4

The random-ish lair generation can really make for super challenging missions. You’d think Citadels would be the roughest but Lairs can be brutal. My advice is don’t send in an Army division when a SEAL team is the better option. Anyone with the thief perk should be cross classed as an infiltrator. I do most Lairs with a two man Infiltrator/Assault team. Just have to keep moving and watch out for Sentinels and Sirens with Psychic Scream, eggs as well. The Pandorans will carpet bomb your suspected location if you trigger them.

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5

Do you have Anu priest in your squad? He helps massively by potentially removing infinite amounts of worms for 0 WP and 0 AP.

6

This is an excellent tactic. And remember, as soon as the spawnery is destroyed, the mission is over, so no worrying about that isolated assaulter.

7

I would prefer Vipre method with infiltrators, but if you don’t have them then pantolomin way is also sufficient, but more risky. Some note about this thing:

Install mod which prevents dash interruption by spotting enemies.

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8

Yes, of course once I have them I use infiltrators. But “bombard” Chirons somehow see them for a reason.
Checked NexusMods but nothing for Phoenix Point… OK via google it works better than searching via NexusMods directly :crazy_face:.

Anyway, the best way still means cheesing the game. Either the flash or invisible man.

9

I don’t consider it “cheesing”, infiltrators infiltrate that’s their job. Get in, execute the objective, evac, Metal Gear style. Not every fight has to be a free for all stand up brawl.

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10

What I meant by cheese is “100% stealth, run in front of everyone, in the spotlight and somehow unseen”.

11

There’s a fair argument to made that maybe the Thief perk isn’t rare enough. Probably an equal one to be made that Lairs are too wide open. I attribute the seemingly supernatural ability to go unseen to some nanotech in the armor.

12

Two planes and vehicles:

  • Two planes will allow 8 slots for missions.
  • Vehicles is hardly the good choice, prefer a squad of 8 for Lairs. The reason is procedural generation is too few in vehicle favor, too many blocked path for them. There’s perhaps some exceptions with some specific builds allowing powerful enter/exit/enter for example, but if you don’t have that, skip them for lairs (but they are great for Haven defense and Scavenging if you aren’t overloaded by difficulty scaling, then it’s more an option with 2 planes).

Respawning:

  • Ensure check carefully the spawn points, you need be aware of them to avoid some unpleasant surprise.
  • Disarm and not kill when possible seems tune down the respawning.
  • Paralyze would probably be another great effective tool but you probably not have the right tools for that yet.
  • Try not kill Sirens, just remove their heads to avoid troubles. And try manage them that way if you try disarm them you’ll kill them too fast. A siren is a smarter enemy and won’t go in open air at reach of your weapons, even less under an overwatch, you can exploit it to control them without kill, but clearly caution when they hide if tunnels not far enough from your team.
  • Disarm crabs, the poison throw is close range, you can try skip it but don’t for arm with grenades.
  • Don’t kill Chiron try disable their head to stop bombard, except if like some post seems suggest paralyze worms slower the respawn. Then ensure paralyze some before.

Jump pack:

  • Don’t use Jump pack for quick long scouting, you don’t want your soldier controlled by a Siren at a corner.
  • Jump pack scout more with an Assault than a Heavy, the dash skill can save from some scouting disaster.
  • Jump pack are also good options for characters optimized for precision and long range attacks, typically Sniper or Heavy. It’s typically very handy to reach a higher position, or reach much faster a LOS.
  • Caution Jump pack used by a non Heavy can fail, so ensure not consider it as your last chance escape for a non Heavy.
  • Two jetpacks can let you exit a soldier that jumped down in a hole, sigh.
  • You can use Jetpack to lure enemies at another side, alas it seems not work with Chiron.

Prepare:

  • Full inventory for all team without overload any, chance of a good pick in Lairs are slim.
  • Bring more ammo and healing that usual.
  • Ensure bring two planes for max team size.

Chiron:

  • If there’s too many exit and come back later, too many are unmanageable.
  • For worms, bash with two hand weapons, but don’t use Heavy weapons that are damaged at each bash.

Lairs still need a design tuning.

13

Can you explain this point as I’m not sure what you exactly mean?

14

I tend to avoid Lairs if I can. They are the most difficult Mission I’ve encountered in the game so far. Frankly I find it easier to let them combine into a Citadel and then take that out in the Great Citadel Turkey Shoot than trying to take out the Lair - which is clearly the wrong way round, but there you have it :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

When I did assault them, I had a Lvl 4/6 Squad with 3 Sniper/Assaults, 1 Heavy/Assault and a Techhie or a Beserker/Assault, with a Scarab. The fight takes 2 phases:

Phase 1
Set up a defensive perimeter and wait for the first Siren(s) to come to you.
Get at least 1 of your Snipers up a tower, so that she has clear LoS across the map. Her job is to pick off and disable the most dangerous creature she can see each turn:

  • Shoot the Siren in the head to take out its Will.
  • Disable the arms of Crabbies.
  • If you can, shoot a Triton’s weapon to destroy it - otherwise, shoot it in the head to take down its Will and hope it panics.

Worm firing Chirons are a relief and not worth worrying about, as long as you’ve armed all your squaddies with pistols. Half of its worms will fall down the cracks in the map, the rest can be taken out by the nearest Squaddie(s) with a pistol. They’re an annoyance rather than a danger to you. Goo & Explosive Chirons on the other hand are dangerous! Shoot the bugger in the head asap - and stay under overhanging cover as much as possible.

Remember to drop your tower-based Sniper back down to cover if too many enemies with long-range weapons get LoS on her.

When the Siren appears, here’s where the Scarab comes into its own, because Sirens can’t MC you in a vehicle! So hop your Shotgun-armed Heavy and her support guy into the vehicle and move it as close to the Siren as you can get. Next turn, Berserker hops out and unloads on her with Armour Break, then hops back in again. Heavy drops out, takes a pot-shot with her shotgun, then hops back in again. Repeat until Siren runs and hides. If you have a Tecchie, he can Repair the Scarab for 1WP every time he hops out of the vehicle.

Phase 2
Once you’ve dealt with the first Siren(s) that appear, you can start moving forward. At this point, 2 of my Snipers usually unsling their Shotguns and start leapfrogging - Sniper with SR takes Overwatch; Sniper with Shotgun moves up, rinse & repeat.

Meanwhile, the remaining Sniper stays on her post, overwatching the board for respawns & new Sirens.

Now you treat the advance like a house-to-house, leapfrogging from cover to cover and judiciously using dash etc to make sure you don’t get bounced by a blind bend. If you spot a Siren, take out her head asap.

The Spawnery will usually be in the hole at the top left of the map. Sometimes it’s top right, which can be a pain.

TO DISABLE OR NOT TO DISABLE, THAT IS THE QUESTION:
Personally, I tend not to disable the more dangerous Nasties - I shoot to kill, but only if my long-range Sniper can cover the Respawn Point. That way, I clear out the Nasties in the way, and the Respawns appear far away from me. At that point, taking out their weapons and leaving them to run aimlessly around the map is fine.

It’s tough, though, real tough. By comparison, Citadels are a cakewalk.

15

Just a guess alas probably wrong.

I had a soldier jumping down in a hole in a Lair and no way could leave the hole. I thought that if I had two jetpacks perhaps a soldier could come with two to allow him escape. :slight_smile:

But ok armors probably can’t be put in backpack. :slight_smile:

16

For me pistols are the wrong way to manage worms, you’ll need very special builds for that. Move and bash, second move and bash is for now the best way I found, much better than lucky pistol shots.

For me the scarab doesn’t worth that, moreover progression path can be blocked and require a lot too many explosive to open it, so you can have let it behind.

Sirens with head disabled, close range only, very cautious enemy, in such huge map with a lot of troubles to progress, are much more manageable, you need be aware of their movements, and even then they can be lured rather easily once the head is off.

17

And this is what these forums are supposed to be about - people debating the best tactics to take down a mission, rather than complaining that it’s unwinnable and raging about how shit the game is. :rage:

Not saying that it doesn’t have all sorts of balancing issues at the moment, but I can’t help feeling that the initial rage posts were a massive overreaction based on my current experience.

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18

People are still right in my opinion, that some tuning are needed.

I wondered if the lair configuration where is or can be a target can’t be identified without seeing the target. It looks always very similar but I haven’t tried check it with care.

A lot of troubles in Lairs is also for newbies to not identify well fog of war and borders. Well spawning points show borders and maps are a strict rectangle. But past that…

I wonder if a Cheron bombard isn’t supposed to help you, as they show the entire map, but frankly I prefer no Cheron at all.

19

I would disagree with you. They are perhaps the most interesting missions and once you get some experience with them can be done consistently well. The last one I’ve done in 5 turns with no repeated Dash or other cheesing like that.
I’ll give several more tips:

  1. Plan your route carefully. Don’t go to the center of the map. Go for the enemy respawn point at the side, the one closest to your objective. If there are obstacles on your way - all the better. Clear the path with your Heavy’s weapon, it will additionally screw the pathfinding of your enemies.
  2. Avoid using pistols agains the worm - use your priest to self-destract them for free. If you get lucky and find some Fireworms you can order them to block some paths with fire and delay enemy advance. Fire is especially lethal for Tritons. Otherwise you can bring some fire grenades.
  3. Once you come close to a respawn point it stops spitting reinforcements. Run your Assault to the Spawnery (it should be nearby) and make a couple of shots into the face.
20

All good advice.

I think the point is, like a lot of this game, it looks intimidatingly impossible on your first few tries, but once you’ve figured out how to deal with it, it can be quite straightforward.