New Lair ala Derleth

Not quite sure that we are there yet. The new map has almost nil cover at the start. Leaving my squad extremely open against the 2 Explosive Bomb Chirons present. While their perception is 20, they actually can perceive units 30 - 40 tiles away. Is it telepathy? Or just uncanny hearing (even if the latter, perception includes hearing). Ended up having to evac (after 3 units were quickly disarmed – literally – disabled arms).

We also added more obstacles and covers to Lairs so you can hide from Chirons.

Doesn’t look as if the number of sirens has been reduced. But then I was forced to retreat early (but there were 3 Sirens already).

> Fewer reinforcements, limit the number of Sirens.

Will have another go and see if things shape up differently next time around.

I assume your squaddies were spotted by other enemies? One Triton with double perception (60!) is enough to spot large areas and because they are also pretty stealthy it could be possible that you even haven’t saw them.
Chirons shoot everything that has been spotted by anything as long as it is in range, they don’t have to spot (Edit: or perceive) their targets by themselves. But I think you know that already?

Therefore, one is sitting duck with no where to hide. Especially in the new lair maps. Prior ones provided nearby high cover. On normal missions, I generally seek cover inside until I know I am safe from explosive & acid Chirons. So far, with the new patch, I’m more or less dead after turn 1 in lairs when they are present.

I’m not the math guy here, but I don’t think my heavies with Boom Blast have the same range, let alone the arc they have. Perhaps their range should be reduced.

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It has also something to do with their status, they only bombard you if they are “alerted”. I have found that they are alerted very quickly in Lairs without perceiving anyone by themself, faster than in some other missions (like Citadels) even if I was spotted by others. For whatever reason …
Maybe tone down their alerted status and then you have time enough to prepare for them?

Without looking into the game:
Base range of Goliath and Fury is AFAIK 25, with Boom Blast then 37.5, Thor has more range so you can fire really far. The arc of the rockets are more flat but the Goliath is almost close to the Chirons high arc.
Chirons have somewhat around 30-40, have a look into their info screen.

Me thinks it’s 40 range which is almost the whole map.

The fact that know one seems to know how the “alerted” mechanic works is telling.

But we know how it works. :wink: Thanks to @pantolomin who explained that. :slight_smile: But yes game doesn’t do that. Maybe there should be short description about alerted status.

I played a Lair last night and I liked the new design a lot. Personally, I think it makes Lairs much easier while keeping the spirit.

I will upload some pictures later, but the basic setup I had is:

  • I start in the bottom left corner, the spawnery is in the top left corner, the exfil zone is in the right top corner, and there are only 2 Pandoran reinforcement points in the bottom right corner.

  • Between the Spawnery and me is an assorted force of Pandorans - A few Arthrons, Tritons, a Siren.

  • To the right of the Spawnery and towards the center of the map were 2 Chirons, one poison worm and one acid.

  • There are three Terror Sentinels on the map, two of them on the way to the Spawnery

  • There are also 2 egg-like structure, that are actually buildings, each with a crate in the center. They get destroyed when hit by explosives, but I suspect that they provide cover against Chirons (I didn’t realize this at first and got hit by the acid Chiron once… To no effect because I had the Synedrion Nanites research that negates first 10 pts of damage)

What I did is sent my Technician to the right bottom corner to put auto laser turrets covering the spawn points, and broke through to the Spawnery with the rest of my force.

My campaign is very close to ending and my soldiers are way OP, even with all the self imposed restrictions, so they cleared the map, not just hit the Spawnery and got away, but it all felt right, nonetheless.

I also loaded my old save to see the new Lair in action. It is much better now!
My self imposed restrictions on Hero are: NO “Lvl.7 skills” AND NO “Rally the Troops”. Nevertheless, my super soldiers easily destroyed everything (without a single hit).

What I also really liked is the new virus damage! This is now the ultimate weapon against the Sirens, without cheating! Snapshot: well done

Now tell us how to deal with 2 Explosive Chirons lobbing 5 shots each - which also happen to not be in any unit’s Los, let alone range.

You have to give me more info than that. What’s the setup? Do you have a screenshot? What turn is it? What’s your team?

So evacuate. 2 Explosive Chirons without cover are not possible do deal with. Unless you have infiltrator with good stealth. Then:

  • you go there just with that single soldier (or more if you have more infiltrators),
  • you kill one or two or three eggs in spawnery
  • use vanish
  • you wait 45 or 23 or 12 turns
  • you evacuate (in either of two evacuation zones)

Which is what I had to do. My point was that while the new lair may be better in some ways, it’s also worse in other ways.

For me it is better as for now.

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Except one one is facing 2 of the most OP enemies at their max. The range of Chiron needs to be reduced, IMHO.


Chirons have 12 ammo. Once they ran out of ammo, that’s it - often they will just run away from the map.

On regular stance they shoot 3 projectiles (50 dmg, 3 shred each), too imprecise to reliably hit the same target twice.

Using stability stance they can shoot 5 projectiles with greater precision, but getting in and out of stability stance costs 1 AP, which means they can’t move and shoot.

The range of Chirons is actually 40 tiles: only 2 tiles more than a GL with Biggest Booms (25 + 13) (this is useful if you want to get an idea of whether you are within range of a Chiron without having to count the 40 tiles). Lairs are at least 60-70 (maybe more?) tiles in width and length.

Chirons only shoot at detected targets, and they tend to prioritize targets that are closer to them. Stuff like spider drones, turrets or decoys are like magnets for their projectiles.

Their heads are completely unarmored, and when disabled their WPs are reduced to 10.

As they need 3 AP to shoot, a single casting of warcry is enough to put them out of action for one turn.

I could go on and on, but there is plenty to do depending on each situation. I just finished a playthrough where I regularly had explosive and acid Chirons to deal with (and that without making use of extreme mobility, or skill spamming, etc.).

Yesterday I actually did another Lair with 2 explosive Chirons on a map “without cover” (that is, without the egg-like buildings), where one of the Chirons is walled off, so there is no direct LOS at it from low ground.

But it is located near the right edge of the map - the spawnery being in the top left corner and the exfil top center.

The other Chiron is near the Spawnery behind elevated ground. So on that precise map all you have to do is stay undetected while you cross the only point in range of the walled Chiron, hug the elevated ground from the opposite side of the other Chiron so that it can’t shoot you, and take it out close range next turn.

Can there be situations where you can’t deal with 2 explosives Chirons with stability stance on a map with no cover and no immediate LOS to the Chirons? It is possible, depending on map, number & strength and deployment of other enemies, and, of course, the composition of your own team. But it’s far from accurate that this is so as a general rule.

EDIT: uploaded pics, corrected dmg per projectile

General rule came not even a mile in my case. Which happened early in the game. So there was no chance I had anything close to the builds you state. Not to mention that they were the first chirons encountered. Theory is great, but not in some actual situations encountered. This situation is one of the OP situations that need to be addressed. Not just player OP combos that occur later on the game than I had progressed. Again, I am only commenting based on actual game play and not some pencil and paper version. So, of course I evac’ ed out. But as early as I was in the game, I felt it was OP to the max.

If you don’t give any specifics, there is nothing to comment on. All you are saying is Chirons are OP, which is fair enough as a feeling, but completely unhelpful for discussion purposes, much less addressing the situation.

  • You say it’s “too early in the game”, but can you provide some objective markers?
  • What is the composition of your team? (I don’t state any builds in my post)
  • What is the layout of the map?
  • What did you try doing?

You might well have encountered a situation that needs addressing. However, you are not describing a situation, but your subjective opinion of it.

For me I actually find this useful, no obstructions like before when in over watch (they ALWAYS shoot a the rocks for some reason?) Anyway, maybe it is just the way I play it but I like to have 5 heavy/snipers one infiltrator and one regular. I use the infiltrator to sneak up and spot the Chirons and then keep the snipers way back out of range and hit them with the “mark for death” then the use the burst option in all the snipers, usually needs only two or three snipers as that gives it 15 hits from the sniper rifles. Unless I miss two bursts is usually enough. Once they are out of the way the rest is really fun! Not sure I like the evac yet, seems to just make the mission longer for me, not really doing anything else. However, the evac in the ambush is tricky they tend to send in an entire new batch as you reach the end round and I usually get a few bullets in my ass as I run for the exit! Quick Question, HOW do you take screen shots in this game? Thanks! Oh… I am on Mac…:slight_smile:

Sorry…, I’m on Windows, so I just go into Game overlay pressing G while holding the Windows key. Which you of course don’t have…