Release discussion

Phoenix Point
61

I get where @cyrneco is coming from tbh. DLC is always something that I find off putting when making a game purchase. If there’s either too much of it, or it’s coming out too quickly after the base game releases I then usually start waiting for the developers to get done with releasing that DLC so that I can assess how much the ‘full game’ is going to cost.

I think the worst example of this is the Paradox type of model where the DLC just keeps coming, and coming, and coming… I got the base game of Crusader Kings 2 and I still don’t play it, because I feel well and truly robbed. (Actually, I think there’s a Train simulator game on steam somewhere that’s worse, but I forget the name of it… wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just ‘Train simulator’)

I don’t think PP is doing things to that extent, but I know I’m relieved that I’ve got that free DLC with the early backing/Epic switch, because I’d not be over happy if not.

Xcom2 totally put me off with its DLC model, I’m still waiting for War of the chosen to drop to what I consider a fair price, and I’ve engaged with the main game far less than I might of done otherwise because of the DLC coming separately.

62

And for MAC? When?

63

Maybe I’m slow, or really hit by English not being my first language. I just simply did not understand the release email.
So I backed Feb. 2nd 2018 for digital deluxe. Does that mean I get early access to the FULL RELEASE VERSION on November 8th? Or will my early access build be upgraded to release code, and then in december I’ll have to restart my game again as it patches to retail release?

64

You will get the full game on December 3rd which is the release date.

1 Like
65

I have similar problem, but it’s the difficulty to figure out what to get from bunch of DLCs. Many of them won’t be a benefit to you on your average play though as they add new playable cultures. To their defence they also update and expand core game for free, so even just the base greatly benefits of this year long support. But yeah I like my games complete and on-sale 90pound Crusader Kings2 is intimidating.

This is where I strongly disagree. XCOM2 handled post-release content perfectly. WotC is worth the price. It’s not a DLC, it’s and expansion adding ton of new content. This is kind of thing that was done in good old days, and I wish for more of it. It is definitely better value then smaller DLCs. The benefit of releasing such chunky update is that they can deep dig into base game.
Even two smaller DLCs ended up good, though I felt they needed integration WotC provided - they felt tacked on without it.

EDIT: I mean it’s on sale right now, for a bit over £10. If that’s not a deal, I don’t know what is.

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So what happens on the 8th then?.. I’m sorry, but it’s very unclear the way you communicated in that letter.

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On the 8th we stop selling the packages that include early access and we start selling the retail packages.

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68

I suggest that the devs put up a huge countdown timer on all their resources for the release of Phoenix Point to increase the hype. This is one of those few games worthy of playing these days and it needs all the attention it can have

69

Please, no…

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70

XCOM2 wasn’t so bad. Just think about any Blizzard ‘expansion’. We will give you one class and few more maps and we will charge you as for a full game. :slight_smile:

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:thinking: I always though Bizzards expansions were cracking. I am referring to Brood War, Frozen Throne, Starcraft2 stuff. Did play their other games. Overwatch2 just confuses me.

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Whenever DLC is announced before game release or not, work on it will always start before. Production takes time - you can’t whip up quality content in a month.

Th simple fact is, that in final stages of game development some of the team doesn’t have a job to do anymore. So they get to work on new content, while rest of the team finishes the base game. Or they get moved to another project if it’s a bigger studio. Planning for DLC is normal, whenever it is advertised, or not.

They also don’t need to wait&see - thanks to the exclusivity epic deal the post release financial security is there. Employs can safely plan and work on new content without worrying if pay check will come.

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73

I finished with Diablo III. Expansion just didn’t catch me.

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74

Wormerine
We’re going out of the matter here. I preordered a game at 60 euro, and what I would be getting (if I hadn’t got a refund) is, at best, the base game with some armor set and stuff like that while there is content there being kept for dlc. Now I’m sure that is all legal, but that doesn’t mean that is fair trade practice. It’s obvious that dlcs were planned, and indeed they did say about dlcs to come, still I don’t think it’s fair to sell a “platinum edition” in this way. You are indeed right in saying I shouldn’t have preordered and indeed I now corrected that. Not everybody is up checking every day every utteration of gollop or unstablevoltage. Here is like if I ordered an expensive drink at a bar then when I try to sit at a stool I’m told that’s not included and that is says so in a notice behind the bar. See what I mean? Now luckily they refunded me no questions asked and quickly and that fair play to them. My gaming life doesn’t revolve about phoenix point, got plenty other games to play with, not last lwotc, so maybe I’ll check again in a year or so and get it on sale or something.
All of that said I do wish you and the others a great time with it, it seems like a fine game.

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75

I am not saying that you shouldn’t have refunded, if you were expecting the edition you bought to provide all content available for the game. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely wait for release, buy base game, if it’s good to play on release, and purchase season pass later down the line.

Just that there is reason to accuse developers of doing anything scummy. They have been transparent about what you get and there is no evidence so far that anything is being withdrawn from 1.0 to be sold as DLC. Developing content post release isn’t evil or unfair, and while AAA industry did abuse this concept in past, some studios use DLCs to make their games better. The last crowdfunded game I played was Deadfire - it had a content rich release, lengthy support and free updates throughout the year after and additional 3 excellent DLC were sold afterwards. It also offered season pass at launch, and one of the addons during campaign was early-bird DLC. Internet allows for straightforward delivery of content post release. I welcome it, if it is done well, as I like games I like to grow bigger and better.

How will PP turn out, we will see in a bit over the month. As someone who’s been following the project for quite a while now, my intention wasn’t to criticise you, but inform to the best of my abilities.

Wishing you all the best.

3 Likes
76

My thoughts exactly. Couldn’t stand people complaining how the last counter regarding BB5 was so unbelievably unprofessional when it went over a couple of minutes without the release… If I was in charge, I would declare the official release as Dec 04th and release it Dec 03 as a special suprise. But then again, someone would complain how the game was being released earlier without taking advantage of another twenty-four hours to crush more bugs

2 Likes
77

I get where you’re coming from and, from personal experience, I definitely feel that some DLC has been anti-consumer over the past few years.

However, I don’t feel that’s the case here. The developers have already tried to cram in as much content and ideas as possible, hence the many delays.

Knowing in advance that you plan DLC doesn’t always mean ‘withholding content’ to get a few extra bucks. Knowing roughly (yes, just roughly) when you’ll release it doesn’t mean it’s content that’s completed or half-way finished either, imho.

It’s just a way of letting people know they plan to support the game in the future and that, once you’ve spent ages mastering the core game mechanics, they’ll be new content to learn and experience later on, meaning another reason to go back to the game.

For me, an example of bad DLC practice would be the Prothean team-mate, along with the Citadel and Leviathan missions from Mass Effect 3. The Protheans were an integral part of the lore and it was available day one. No reason at all not to include it. I think it was actually in the installation code but you had to pay to unlock it, iirc. Either way it was scummy business, along with all the withheld extra weapons.

The Leviathan DLC was a mission that went a long way to explaining the story and history of the Reapers and made the widely hated ending a bit more palatable.

Finally, one of the big deals about the final part of the series was that fans were hoping to get to spend time with all their favourite characters, but possibly the best example of that was in the Citadel DLC. So yeah, for me that’s an example of greed, pure and simple, and it came at the expense of the experience.

Good DLC would be Witcher 3, Warcraft 3 and Xcom 2, though many would argue they’re actually expansions. Still, they were planned ahead of time too.

PP is a game that is full of depth, more so than the Firaxcoms, and will take a long time to master, to complete the highest difficulties and also bears at least a couple of playthroughs, lore wise.

Imo, we’re getting everything, possibly more, than was originally planned when they announced the game.

The only option is to wait for all the DLC to be released and then get the GotY edition much later on, which is perfectly fine too. Either way, I don’t think Snapshot have been deceitful or greedy here.

1 Like
78

Game development is a business at the end of the day, and companies are in it to make money. But at the same time consumers make purchasing decisions based on whether they feel that they’re getting value for money or not.

If a game releases and on day 1 has DLC, then from a consumer point of view the total price of the base game + DLC is the price of the game that they’ll use to decide whether that game is giving value for money.

There certainly will be exceptions, for what its worth, I personally don’t think PP have been deceitful or greedy, but that’s after following the game for months, and even then I’m still to a large extent guessing. But I doubt that the average potential customer is going to start looking deeply into things such as ‘is this what was promised during the fig or not’ they’ll simply look at what’s in front of them and then either make a purchase, wait for the price to come down to what they consider reasonable, or buy something else.

It’s just supply and demand.

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79

I certainly see what you mean. I’ll tell you in all honesty that I don’t actually think this crowd is all that bad: they’re probably just adapting to the business environment. That’s understandable but still it doesn’t mean that everybody has to take it. You lads have a bit of a cult going here, I can see that by reading this forum in the last few days. Which is ok , mind, but that means also that looking from the ‘inside’ you are actually, I think, losing perspective. This game, that make a badge of honour not being ‘AAA’ (and I was all for it, that’s why, foolishly, preordered) is actually AAA price range now when you factor in the DLCs. My mistake, if can be so called, was precisely to not looking too deeply: I just thought “hey it looks fine, I like the genre and they’re a small outfit” and went for it.
Really now what I think, seen also as they have been very good with the refunding process, is that they have a serious problem with the marketing and generally commercial side, not to mention PR. The packaging is a total mess! And the community manager rather than troubleshooting problems antagonises the customers for example. These are silly mistakes.
I understand that folks like you are invested in this game, this “cult”, but folks like me aren’t. I have followed this forum more in the last week (after receiving the email and because of the notifications) than in the three months before that when I actually bought the game. Fine if you want your game to be a little business between friends, but if you want it to make some spondulix a business needs also people like me who are not invested in the ‘cult’. I hope I’m being clear and not coming across as a hater or such nonsense. I will likely get the game in the future, only I’ll wait that it’s packaged properly and clearly. Likely will be next november/december '20 with all the DLCs out and on a sale. And again I wish you boys a great time with it.

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I’m quite confident I’ll be getting this game in the manner you said (GotY or such), it lloks like a fine concept.
You lads are taking my criticism a bit too much to heart I think. It’s not that I hate snapshot or gollop and I’m trying to be nasty or something. As I explained to spiteandmalice and others I don’t have such a bad opinion. There is much worse out there. That said I wish also to point out that to me you folks seem to be a bit caught in this kind of ‘cult’ or ‘tribe mentality’ if you prefer. Looking from the outside (as I’m an outsider here) it seems clear to me that this operation has become very expensive to the level of a triple A game. Of course for folks who follow this game since the start doesn’t feel like that because you are invested and you have invested a lot in it (I can feel from the defensive answers I got to a mild critique I ‘dared’ to move…), but for me is clear. I’m thinking now that is caused less by predatory policy and more by amateurish sales department (think of the mad confusion of ‘editions’ that customers have to deal with). But I repeat again to be sure it’s understood I’m not trolling: I wish ye all a great time with this game which seems like fine stuff and which I’ll probably buy myself (again…) in the future.