Release balance issues: did Gollop and other designers play the full game?

I have to check Sirens HP and Armour stats, but I am almost sure you can’t disable head with two shots from PP sniper rifle.
Even if, if you expect to take a perfect two headshots, that means you are in range that Siren can come and eat you. otherwise you can be a savescum and reload and shot until you are happy with outcome. I know that with the infinite amount of tries you can disable siren with a pistol, the problem is cause your ironman game almost impossible. and force you to chessplay the game. and withe the wrong roll, restart the mission until you don’t have 2 sirens in turn one.

armor is pointless against sniper rifle… Siren has 20-30 armor, but sniper rifle does 110 damage… so you will still deal 80-90 damage per shot… in my play, i never ever had issue with Sirens… I tend to kill them as fast as possible… In few missions, i killed 2 sirens per turn, anyway if Im not able to kill them, I always at least disable their heads.

yes, you are correct! But again, that implies you can make TWO perfect shots with your sniper, which means siren has to come to you (because you cant move). And if you miss, armour is extremely important in the equation because it negates 40-50% of firepower of any other weapon.

So, IS it doable ? yes
Is it fun way to play? no.

hitting anything in the head with a sniper is easy… you can do it quite reliably… and if you have 2 snipers, you have 4 shots you can take…

plus, you can still use assault with dash to get close and finish up with 2 shotgun shots into face if necessary…

  1. Chirons will fire at you if they have an arc, it doesn’t matter where you stand. You might be in a building and just don’t notice some gaps in a room. You might stand next to wall and Chiron just moves few tiles to a side and can lob his crap just fine.
  2. My squads are equipped exclusively with sniper rifles, as that is the ultimate weapon against any enemy. Yes I don’t have issue with Siren, don’t even bother to count how many shots you need. Doesn’t make it a good design as game becomes trivial.
    Getting one shot by chirons or mind-controlled is just an annoyance as it happens lagerly because of randomness. The same encounters can be dealt with zero injuries if placement of the enemies or events unfold slightly differently.

i never saw chiron firing at my squad when standing close to a wall… but of course, im not standing next to a wall while having chiron directly in front of me (and wall behind me)… i’m using corners to shoot at it…

you guys should watch xwynns at youtube how to play Phoenix Point…

Good for you. My Squad hugged the wall of a lair. Said wall was between my soldiers and the chiron. Guess what happend? It fired anyway. Sure 1 of the shots hit the wall. The other 2 (due to trajectory) hit the ground right behind me and the splash damage disaled two of my squads arms while heavily wounding the rest. Only one who was unscathed was my sniper which lagged behind a few meters. So yeah the chiron did not care about “not having a clear shot”

Ohh really? That is very smart. I’ll make sure to try that :smiley:

On more serious note. It’s absolute cheese when chirons just stand there few meters away from you when they can’t take any shot. They don’t try to run away, reposition themselves, lure you out or at least react in some way to being shot to pieces. It’s the dumbest and annoying enemy that is neither a challenge to fight nor lead to any interesting interaction. They could at least change their stance to cover their soft parts with their armored legs.

you chose wrong wall :slight_smile:

…yeah, I’ll keep that in mind

Yeah sure i could have chosen another one. Mybe the one i couldnt reach that turn. that one would have been exactly between my team and the chiron. Just like the one i stood behind. Or the one i could have reached, too bad that this would meant that the chiron had to move about 3 meters to have an absolutly clear shot and all 3 projectiles had hit me.
There was no alternative that would have had made any difference in the outcome.

But sure, you keep cheesing your way through a game. I for myself neither have interest nor fun in cheesing tactics.

Chiron are a real danger and should probably be nerfed, damage is too high. However they are not invicible and you can find some tactics :

  • Rage burst snipers
  • Warcry. I don’t count the times i made an heavy jump faaaar away to hard CC a chiron with Warcry giving enough time to the rest of the team to prepare the kill
  • Use cover of course.

However i must admit that they are one of the worst enemy in game and they can be unfair…

Sirens are much more manageable especially with the return fire changes. At long range they are just nice target for your snipers. At short range you can CC with Warcry and blast the head with all big guns you have… Never let a siren with 4 AP in range, always Warcry and try to LOS. At worse she will control one guy not two.

There is some boss however that seems… terrifying… and i have no clue on how to beat them.

Chiron? They felt like a joke to me from day 1! LOL! I just wait 3 turns for it to finish its ammo and then its sitting duck. What’s so hard about that? Assault rifles on week 4?! If you are still using assault rifles at week 4, you are playing the game wrong. By week 4, I am already using AP weapons. Rage burst can be used with anything. I don’t even play ANY snipers in my playthroughs. I use rage burst with hellcannon. Sirens? ?How are Sirens even a problem?? in a 6 man team, focus fire kills anything before they get into range. In my 3 playthroughs, Sirens only managed to take control of my dude ONCE and even that, she died the very next turn. So, yeah, I still don’t see what the fuss is about.

In one of my 3rd living guns DLC mission, I had 1 Scylla and 6 Chirons! LOL! All fireworms! But all I did was just sit in one far corner, set up 3 turrets, focus down the Scylla, aggro as few Chirons as possible and then just keep killing worms until they ran out… then its so funny cos they just stand there doing nothing hahaha

That’s just using one unbalanced OP exploit to deal with a 2nd unbalanced feature of the game. Both sides of that equation need fixing.


There is no enemy that can’t be killed any other way. You can beat the game without that ability.

why do you think im cheesing my way through? I do not have problems with Chirons because i use different tactics against them… I tend to disable their torso so they cant launch projectiles if I can, if I cant, i try to find a path towards them so they cant shoot at me. It is perfectly possible doing so. so just because you cant figure it out, it doesnt mean others didnt figured out how to deal with them.

I think you’re replying to the wrong person there mate.

sorry, way this forum work is kinda confusing

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If you can disable chirons torso then you can outright kill it. If there is a multi story building on map then you can kill every other enemy on the map from out that building and don’t bother with chirons till they are last enemy on the map.
To be clear. There are other people like you who for some reason think, that we think that enemy A or B is difficult. We don’t find them difficult, we find them annoying to deal with. Depending on when in timeline you take one of the story missions, it can be that it’s not only your first encounter with some enemies but there are bunch of them on the map, as game scaled difficulty for you. Your first encounter can be quite miserable, then you restart a map and try something different, then you can deal with them flawlessly because you know now what to do. This is not a good experience as most of the other battles don’t require restarting or changing tactics.