Nerf everything

Make Rage Burst automatic weapon only and change targeting to non-direct, maybe a cone (with angle fixed) like in Overwatch. Make it Rage Burst and not Very Quick Aim Precision Multishot :stuck_out_tongue:

This is Rage Burst: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drk_yDIyxhY&t=1m05s

exactly, and it would also be fun. :grimacing:

I like the idea and would go a step ahead. Instead of a fixed cone i would make is so, that as wider you chose the cone the more ammunition you have to spend, i.e. smallest cone = one normal burst and widest cone = full magazine burst. Another step further in this direction would be to make this ‘skill’ a specialiality of the Deceptor only (or any other minigun that will maybe come in the future) and find something new for the heavy class on level 7.

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With cone RB will be useless at range more than 5-10 tiles, but in close it still be devastating. I think, restriction to automatic weapon only will be enough.

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It would be more a weapon against groups of enemies with the opportunity to destroy ostacles (=cover) in an area. More like grenades and not longer a oneshotkillalltool.

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It is devastating at close range right now with Deceptor, and making it automatic only won’t change that anyway. :slight_smile: What cone would change actually is that it forces you to be very close to be devastating, and would affect AR as well. :slight_smile:

RB used to kill scilla with sniper rifle at first turn. This is main problem with this skill, cause it wrong to complete citadel with two RB from starting position.

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But won’t it just replace it with varied number of assault rifle Rage Bursts? :slight_smile:

Also, if the problem is in Citadel being to easy, maybe it needs slight redesign as well to prevent some cheap tactics abuse. :slight_smile:

I checked that because Voland replied, and I find your post as real refreshment. Personally I would even nerf more some things, some maybe less, but definitely I would go this way. :slight_smile: Great post.

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And all Heavens redesign too, cause scilla there can be killed very fast and very easy with RB :slight_smile:

As in the other thread, I can only repeat that for this scenario the combination sniper rilfe with RB is not the real problem but the citadel mission itself. (Edit: or any other ‘problem’ for sniper/RB you try to desribe here)

Your solution:

This only prevents one of the many possibilities, but not the cause itself.

My personal thoughts on what will happen if you restrict RB only in this way:

  • Many players will be very upset that one of their favorite toys has been taken away from them
  • After some time, many will find that RB with assault rifles does not cause less damage, but in some circumstances even more damage than with sniper rifles, namely if the armor is leveled beforehand (explosives, armor break, breakthrough …) and if you do that with the Synedrion assault rifle (Daimos) not even from so much less range than with a sniper rifle.
  • The problem of ending the Citadel Mission in one turn (Edit: or just killing a Scylla) from a relatively large distance remains …

In the end, before someone comes and says I would like to keep RB as it is, no, but I am in favor of a solution that will remain balanced in the long term. With only a restriction to all automatic weapons, in my opinion, that won’t last long.

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Edit: I would stop discussing Rage Burst now. Lets restrain from hijacking this topic for another Rage Burst brainstorming. This one is made to think about general tone down of EVERYTHING. Here’s link to main Rage Burst support group: Rage burst for sniper / heavy still OP

Game in early beta, no matter what devs says. So, it’s some players problem, who use it. Also, there are many another holes in gameplay to use :wink:

Weapon system, weapon mechanic imbalanced and need to rework in base. Without it all trying to balance skills will be failed in long term.
Cone RB will be absolutly useless and will be used only in melee distance. Let nerf RB range, so you can target only enemy in 10 tiles radius, for example. But as I said, such restriction very bad for long term.

If you need to nerf everything then problem in core. And nothing will help, but core mechanic rework.

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The topic is called “Nerf everything” and yes, it is about ideas about core mechanics rework. :stuck_out_tongue: I would expect its pretty obvious. :stuck_out_tongue: But no need to discuss, yet again, possible Rage Burst rework in particular. It may be coincidence but I think @SpiteAndMalice created this topic as he become tired of talking again and again about Rage Burst. :stuck_out_tongue:

That depends on how the cone is implemented and whether it only applies to the Deceptor or an upcoming minigun. I can only quote myself how I see an RB revision in this form:

As long as the smallest cone is about as accurate as a single actual burst (single shot), not much should change for it, but RB gets a different effect, more on area than on individual targets.

Yeah and here we are again … :smile:

as stated I’m harsh to multipliers, and the random skill + %dmg damage bonus is a major factor.
-on multi-hit weapons it makes them a lot more effective against armor (major weapons: deceptor, shotgun) and given the already high damage these weapons inflict, it is a massive raw increase in output
-single hit weapons have, or get through their class rider effects that trigger at HP loss or damage thresholds ( hellcannon daze, sniper skill weakspot)
would altering them cause the diversity of soldiers to drop, possibly…as it depends on the value of accuracy (that is given the aiming system not that high, but this may also be because you can get close to +50% by equipping sniper gear. If the benifits of accuracy are harder to acquire, I think (or rather…hope) the value of skills that give it increases)
in the random skills I would only leave 1 +%dmg skill alive, that being reckless because it is a tradeoff random skill.

about willpower as a defense, I have no idea how to actually implement that…but I really like the “mana shield” concept of it.
-in the current game, if a siren gets close he will always get his mindcontrol off if she wants to do so. the only counter you have is to be outright immune to it. and psychic scream doesn’t even check if there are any resistances (at least I didn’t notice). and the final boss effect…well pretty much requires a priest as a counter.
-what I would like is that if a psychic effect hits a full will soldier there is a high chance to resist the effect. meaning that skill spam means having less or no defense against panic or mind control inducing attacks.
I hope this will allow for more introduction of enemies using panic and other will attacking maneuvers, meaning you get another avenue to more enemies (or compositions) rather then only more guns.

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Yeah and those tight formations don’t help, I know the bigger the load the slower you can move but when you almost max out your men with movement points well then they should well move. The alien that shoots the acid or plasma or whatever it is, is the most dangerous. More so when again your on that small map and in close together and it doesn’t help if the Sirens are on the map as well or even mind fraggers. The game is just to much at times and I’ve found myself turning it off and moving on to something else. Like I mentioned to someone else the game should be fun not piss you off to the point of wanting to toss your keyboard in frustration which I’ll admit I’ve come close too doing.

Regarding %dmg buffs, I don’t know which approach is best - I believe we agree that having both reckless and random %dmg buffs is bad, so one of them has to go. Not sure which.

About the psychic defense, one thing I wouldn’t want is a RNG element to be introduced. I find the current mind control system great because it is entirely predictable. But any interesting mechanic that doesn’t introduce RNG would be fine by me.

For more enemy types/mutations I would really like to see more advantage of the ballistics system taken. For example, creatures that would act as shields, or inversely, be unaffected by bullets and let them pass through, like jellyfish, requiring fire. Weapons that shoot autotargeting projectiles and can be shot down by active defense systems…

Please don’t take this the wrong way… But, I find it very interesting to see how everyone has their own take on to micro-manage/massage the game into the game they want it to be, and not necessarily the game the conceivers and devs are trying to make it be.

Snapshot, give us full Mod Support so everyone can have the game they want. You have provided us with a great core concept. Continue to work on massaging the game you want to create and give the community the mod support it obviously needs to achieve their desired end product.

This is a general reply and not in anyway directed to @mfitz1970.

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