I think it would be nice if when you were preparing to use exertion, the game showed how much of your bar it would refill, including whether that would put you over the threshhold to fire your weapon. I’ve had a few times were I was at something like 20% AP, so exertion took me to 45%, and I couldn’t quiiite fire my gun.
Exactly what I came to write here. Coloring skills and movement tiles that would become available differently would be tremendously helpful.
Another thing about Exertion is that it is only usable if your TUs are not at max. Is there a tactical reason why it does not work like a buff but it’s a replenish? For example wanted to use Exertion at the start of my turn to see where I could run up to & shoot before making my decision.
Maybe it is made like that on purpose so extertion could be used only in specific, dangerous situations during soldier’s turn and not at the beginning of that turn. It seems more interesting this way, but it’s just my opinion.
I just don’t see the difference between
Exertion-run-skill/shoot-retreat in one go and
so I don’t understand, why the first one should be prevented and the other two are alright. I don’t think it opens anything new tactical-wise and would be a nice-to-have convenience.
I may be missing something though.
I’m just seeing exertion as extension of the turn being already played. Didn’t say the first option should be prevented or is it tactical-wise or not. So you missed nothing
Even though this is already old I wanted to add my 2ct. I think the difference between the two is already in the name of the skill. It is called exertion for a reason. My thinking is that it kind of should prevent you to use it as a planned extension but use it more or less as a safeguard if you used up your last APs and are faced with more enemies/firepower than anticipated.
Using your example it would be more like:
Run → Shoot → oh crap more Crabbies → exertion → run for cover
Sure, but that won’t stop anyone from using it for planned strikes when available. Only to leave them mildly pissed that there is that one AP missing from getting to cover.
So my argument was that if something is going to be used (probably mostly) for X anyway, make using it for X comfortable.
Besides, I can see soldiers hyping themselves “I will do that and that and I will give it my all” before actually sprinting from cover.
As far as gameplay goes, it’s quite a weak rationale as the way to go in harder modes is usually to plan the entire turn before even starting to move a soldier, and explore only during your first actions. While accidental late reveals of enemies happen occasionally, they shouldn’t be the norm.
You can still factor in exertion in such plans (take a risky action, stop there if it works, use exertion to gtfo if it doesn’t) but ti’s a bit different.
While we’re on Exertion, something that hasn’t come up is how weak exertion is compared to all the other class abilities we’ve seen so far. i.e.:
Heavy - Armor that can take any standard, non-piercing round with little to no damage, essentially making a near impenetrable soldier at early levels, possibly late game too, depending on upgrades.
Sniper - Can fire the handgun as long as they have willpower to do it, up to 7-8 rounds in one turn if they use all their will. The handgun fires AP rounds, increasing it’s usefulness, and is an agile weapon now, allowing return fire.
Technician - Turrets. Robo-arms that repair limbs, vehicles, and severely damage and stun enemies.
Assault - Can take 3 extra steps… for 2 will.
With the high will cost I would suggest getting 50% of move points back, allowing for another rifle burst. I can’t say how many times already I’ve moved to a position that had a clear shot at a shielded crab-man, just to have them move their shield in the way on accident while casually looking around. Then I use Exertion, and it sometimes barely is even enough to find good cover. Another shot in this situation would be ideal, and increase the overall usefulness of the class.
As it stands now, I don’t see much reason to bring an assault on a mission. The Technician basically fills the same role and then some. If you gave them an assault rifle, you’d have an Assault that can heal people and fix vehicles, essentially. Conversely, if you give the Assault a pistol they don’t have the training to use it as good as a sniper; if you give them a sniper rifle, they’re a sniper that can move a little farther, which is actually a little more useful, but since you have to use up the APs before you can use Exertion, that usefulness is reduced again; If you give them a machine gun, they don’t have the armor required to get close enough to use it effectively; if you give them the Technician’s arms, well, I haven’t tried that yet, so I’m not sure the limitations.
I know it’s early yet, but if these are the basic class abilities, my opinion is the Assault starts out weak compared to the others, especially when you consider putting different gear on people, and buffing Exertion would decrease that gap.
It could be by design though. The assault is the most versatile and can use other equipment that’s why he is also less specialized. Besides the exertion they also have return fire (although it’s a weapon feature) which I find quite useful. I haven’t played the new build that much yet but I am using the assault more like a scout because they don’t seem to have slightly more armor than the sniper.
When Irina was still an assault in BB1 I used them in pair to flank the brawlers and tanks to get behind their shield.
Exactly, anyone can have that.
I guess I wasn’t thinking ahead, though, in that if I were to give anyone abilities from other classes it would be the assault to make them better. Exertion with heavy armor? Yes. A turret throwing Assault? Yes. Exertion to fire a pistol? Sure thing. Aside from that, we haven’t seen what future abilities there will be. Even still, I probably won’t be taking many rookie Assaults into battle if I have other options.
Assault is basic class. They are weaker than other classes by design (in most cases) and will probably be most common class that you will get at the start. And remember that sometimes those 4(!) tiles are really ‘to be or not to be’ when:
- you run out of grenades and need to flank some heavily armoured enemy
- when you need to reach mission objective
- just hide behind some distant cover.
They are also supposed to be more mobile than other classes, but soldier statistics are not yet in the place. Comparison against other classes:
vs Sniper - Assuming that sniper will use sniper rifle and assaults will use assault rifles then they have huge damage per turn in close combat comparing to sniper.
vs Heavy - they can easily flank enemies
vs Technician - nothing interesting here, but Technician class is ‘prestige’ so it is no surprise it doesn’t have flaws vs Assault.
EDIT. Assaults were called ‘Grunts’ in earlier version of demo, so this can give another perspective how ‘good’ they are.
I guess it makes sense to have sort of a “weak” starting class, but it seems to me like close-range classes should be a little more powerful, since anyone willing to get up close and personal with the beasties probably has something to recommend them. Buff exertion, as mentioned, and maybe abilities that increase damage from flanking attacks, or bonuses to will and moral for killing enemies up close, that sorta thing.
or weapons that do well there, like a shotgun
I know its been a while since this was originally posted, but to follow up the original post:
I too have had wasted exertions, where I thought I had more AP than I did. In those moments, I planned to get an extra shot in, but must have had 48 AP instead of 50. I would like a numerical representation on the side of that bar. That way if I have 25/100 I can plan the exertion, without wasting it. Maybe this will already be improved in the BB3; but time will tell.
So what do you guys think now? Looks like developers have listened to you. Assault is currently most powerful class. You can roam almost whole map, annihilate enemies with shotgun and go back. For me it is overpowered.
Exactly the “class” problem. IF there were Xcom style soldier stats, one would gain experience via kill (in terms of improved stats not only powers) new soldiers would suck no matter the weaponry.
We want rookies and vets back!
Extorting super powers is nice, needs planning but is “kind of magic”. I prefer old school stat development. Best would be if in FRP style we could decide “where new points go” and bravery is decided by actions and wounds (bravery also determined panick and mind control).
Only because will power is easy to come by, there is no willpower/stress management outside of battle, and injuries heal in a few hours. And I don’t think we should judge a class system in a build where you can’t even make them get experience.
Well it was irony for those who were complaining. I know it is not ballanced yet.
btw. How would you guys see Exertion to be useful and not overpowered? Should it use more Will Points? Or less? Should it restore 50% of TU or more? Or less? Should it have some limit for number of uses in turn or remain limited only by will points? This is serious question about your opinion.