Dual classes Overpower

Canny Official Feedback Tool topic:
https://feedback.phoenixpoint.info/feedback/p/dual-classes-overpower

I believe all players like challange ingame and don’t want overpowers… most of it starts when player can do Dual Class soldiers (and AI can´t what is unfair) making the supersoldiers (infiltrator/sniper, assault/beserk, etc.)

I suggest to change this feature, just allowing player to choose one habilitie from other class but not all the tech tree.

Well, enemies can have way more HP, WP and some abilities like Goo and Acid Bombs, so dual class abilities is only way to compensate that. I would not mind your idea if our WP, HP, move scales get unlimited and you get to deploy 10 plus soldiers instead of 7/9 currently max.

I see that you have a lot of post with interesting points, I agree with almost all of them.

Of course I think there are too many OP stuff in the game, including second class.

I have suggested other times, max. LV 7 for one class, even second class preventing LV 7 abilities,
if you want second class you will have max. two LV 6 abilities

We have modules for that, and Acid Chirons are useless after researching nanotech,
also you can get soldiers with 360 HP and 29 WP

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Thank you etermes… i am a very experienced TBS player since XCOM UFO Defense back in the 1990s, and since it came to Steam, i am playing Phoenix Point and did it for more than 400 hours. Finish it in Hero and doing a Legend campaign now. I think it would be usefull to developers to have feedback of experienced players to improve their games, that’s why i am doing so many.

About what you wrote, how we can get 360 HP and 29 WP?

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Max HP should be 380:
30 max strength stat
+1 from Regeneration Torso Mutation
+2 from Strongman
+2 from Resourceful
+3 from Project Vulture
= 38 strength
= 380 HP
I don’t know how @etermes has got 360 HP, but he has proven it with Strongman, so maybe I missed a +1 thing.
EDIT: Got it, thx @etermes for the missing part :slight_smile:

Max Willpoints:
20 max WP stat
+2 from Farsighted
+2 from Healer
+5 from Judgement Head
= 29 WP

Max Speed:
20 max speed stat
+2 from Quarterback
+1 from Thief
+4 from Agile Legs mutation
= 27 speed

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Those numbers are right,

and +1 STR is for Regeneration Torso:
http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Mutations

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Thx for the Info, I edited it in my post :slight_smile:

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The problem is not the multi-classing per se, it’s the fact that SG doesn’t put any limits on its most OP skills. So it’s possible to get, for instance, a Heavy/Infiltrator who can unleash a 3000+ damage Sneak Attack by combining it with Rage Burst or stacking Marked for Death, or a Zerker/Assault with Adrenaline Rush & Rapid Clearance who can clear an entire map by spamming 1AP attacks that give him back 2 APs.

Many on the Community Council are on a never-ending quest to get the devs to understand/accept that unlimited power does not make for an interesting game experience.

But on the other side of the coin, we always have to remember that there are players who are not as adept as exploiting the meta as the more experienced players of this game. So there is a balance to be struck.

Personally, I think it would be a real shame if multi-classing got limited to just a small handful of skills, because this is one of the (many) USPs of the game. However, I’m completely with you that there need to be limitations to prevent the kind of OP builds that are possible at the moment.

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And in that you are wrong.

Try searching for ‘Omega’ on these forums and see what he thinks - and he’s just one of the more vocal proponents of that school of thought, which we have to respect as much as we respect hard-core Legendary players who can ace this on Ironman with one hand (literally) tied behind their back.

Just because you and I want a tight, challenging, tactically balanced game doesn’t mean that others don’t get their kicks out of being superheroes.

Which is why I am constantly badgering the devs about introducing Second Wave Options that allow the players to choose the kind of in-game difficulty they want to experience.

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Is this fun? and for how long?

Inifiltrator/Sniper using Scorpion SR

Dropbox - Scorpion_reloaded.mp4 - Simplify your life

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For some it is. There are also certain players who would like something like this as a standard skill (without any combo). Then somewhere in the world there are certain players who would even see something like this as underpowered, because a Lvl 7 soldier should be able to spit nuclear bombs and anything that is less is not worth being called “skill”.

Is that the target audience for the game? I dont know. Snapshot Games has to decide that for itself.

I mean: In such a highly complex game, certain OP combos can always be overlooked or accidents can occur as “exploits”. The only thing is: Is it part of the vision of the game or not? That is the real question.

And your example here is still harmless compared to what else is possible :blush:

I know, and I am trying, creating a lot of content for YT and devs, but as you say we need to know their vision

Scyther slicing Scylla

Dropbox - Scyther_face_to_face.mp4 - Simplify your life

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Thank you!!!

I did only one campaign yet and with no allies to win The Phoenix Path on Steam… so i did not explored the advanced tech tree of other factions… and it seems i still have to learn more about the game ;).

I believe you, anyway, the Overpower Super Hero Team should be an option in Second Wave to rookies and XMEN fans players to activate, the normal way to win should be without overpower and in a difficult war to save the humanity imo :slight_smile: !!!

Btw, how can we choose Ironman? I did not find that option and i am playing with my house rules of a single save.

There is no Ironman mode. You have to play HonestMan, which it sounds like you are :wink:

If you’re anything like a lot of us on here, you’ll develop a whole host of self-restrictions which keep the game interesting and prevent you from exploiting the meta.

Of course, you shouldn’t have to, but until the devs grasp that nettle - or even admit it exists - it’s the only way you can keep the game interesting once you’ve hit Lvl 7 with most of your squaddies.

People like me soldier on and chip away at the devs, because we can see that there’s a real gem of a game hidden behind all that OP crud: but it does tend to get wearing after a while.

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I fully agree with you. This game has potential to be epic for TBS players and fans of XCOM sinde the 1990s. These are the core games that can become with a game for years, devs should think on it and do a real challange and not go for arcade game for newbies who wants superhero games and slayer all.

I always play Ironman, that’s the way in my point of view that this kind of games should be played and where lose a veteran soldier hurts… for me that should be the only option to play this game, even in easiest difficulty level.

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Some of us need that stuff to have a chance. If it’s too easy for you don’t use it. Problem solved.

This is what I mean @Lobo . Not every player agrees with you (or me) that the exploits make this game too easy.

So Snapshot have to find a way of satisfying you, me and @emikochan at the same time. The only way of doing that satisfactorily is by either making Easy really easy (which I am tirelessly campaigning for) & Legendary really hard - though I find Legendary very boring because it removes many of the interesting choices in the game.

Or by introducing Second Wave Options, so that @emikochan can choose ‘Superheroes ON’ and you and I can choose ‘Superheroes OFF’ (or whatever more sophisticated way of achieving that is offered).

And no, @emikochan , while I have been playing this game with a list of self-restrictions as long as my arm for more than 2 years now, it is not a satisfactory way to play a game. Put simply, this game as it is currently designed is broken - if you know what you are doing it is fairly easy to create a range of Superhero Terminator Builds that can clear a map in 1 or 2 turns without breaking a sweat. If you don’t believe me, just watch some of the videos that @etermes posts regularly - and he plays with massive self-restrictions, like ‘no multi-classing’.

We keep playing this game, and we keep feeding back to the devs because we think that it has something which most other games in this genre do not. But we shouldn’t have to wilfully ignore the fact that if we (for instance) cast Boom Blast with a Grenadier carrying a Rocket Launcher on his back, (s)he can plaster an area with 3 high-explosive rounds and render any Crabbies in the area effectively useless (which means that 2 Heavies armed with RLs & GLs can neutralise most missions on Turn 1); or that if you cross-class a Lvl 7 Zerker with an Assault, (s)he can cast Rapid Clearance + Adrenaline Rush (in that order) and clear the entire map in one Turn. Not to mention what Infiltrators can do with Stealth Attack.

And don’t get some of the CC started on how broken certain Bionics are!

So the problem is not solved by ignoring the fact that the game is designed to be played a certain way, but that if you play it that way it becomes a fairly tedious clickfest. The problem is solved by acknowledging that these problems exist and properly balancing skills & Nasty damage output so that such egregious loopholes cannot be exploited, and that the likes of @emikochan don’t need them in order to be able to survive.

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I’ve done that stuff too, but just cause I do that doesn’t mean the game is too easy imo, I don’t want my troops to die.

Higher difficulty is always going to reduce your choices as you always need to go for the more effective strategy.

It’s literally impossible to make it harder without making some decisions the wrong ones.

Of course it is possible …

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