Changing AP system from 4 to 8 (or even 12)?

Let it be the skill Lvl2-3, “3AP for 3 shots” and with the end of the turn, it is even better if through the “overwatch mechanics” (a fairly narrow sector and a penalty to accuracy - if available for weapons, other than HW).

Unlike the current RB, it is worth setting the

sector beams = min accuracy,

not the center of the Aim. Rage Burst is completely garbage with Cthulhu (spoiler) - #12 by etermes

I’m still not convinced to shift an high AP, high damage ability from action to reaction, especially not when it is not really flexible. That said, my suggested change would be to make it flexible, the amount of shots is dependent on the AP that are left when you activate the skill:
1 AP left = 1 OW shot/burst
2 AP left = 2 OW shots/bursts
3 AP left = 3 OW shots/bursts
4 AP left = 4 OW shots/bursts
Probably hard to explain, but this is a different story.

This would make the skill useful with offensive tactics like jump for 3 AP and OW for the rest 1 AP and also pretty strong in defensive when spend all 4 AP.

:+1: to change accuracy (more density for the burst) with setting the width of the cone.

There is a misunderstanding here. In your concept, this will be Heavy’s skill.

For the current RB, the width of the sector cannot be adjusted.
In my concept, sector width (strict) = weapon accuracy (+/- penalties).
It will be Mechanics, not just for Heavy. For example, a skill for a Sniper with a pistol, or rebuild a skill:

I think I have understand it, but just focus on the Heavies new RB you suggested (as an OW varaint with high damage but very narrow). Or, I’m still wrong … ?

Look at the current RB as an attempt to avoid / get around Free Aim. Replace Free Aim with Shooting Sector.

@MadSkunky, Any rule always has an “ugly” exception. And this happened with Free Aim (rule) and Heavy (bad job).

I think we are still on the same page, or not?

  1. More accuracy for single shot weapons.
  2. Higher burst dense for burst weapons when “sweep the cone” (in summary the same as more accuracy … somehow).

decrease accuracy and increase damage (with an increase in the number of shots) in the planned setor (depending on the accuracy of the weapon) - as now in RB

There is no possibility to Increase accuracy, because this is a Zone Attack.

… not usable with single shot weapons like the Hel II Cannon?

“3AP for 3 shots”

  • Wide cone => 3 shots “somewhere”
  • Small cone = 3 shots more accurate in a smaller region

I think you’re right, I still not understand what you want to achieve at all.

Your suggestion as i understand it right now with my own conclusion:

  • RB switch from active to reactive, make it an OW ability with the possibility to change the cone width.
  • Width of cone:
    • You = amount of damage, more shots?
    • Me = dense of burst, same amount of shots (=> more damage and/or more accuracy on single targets)

I read this, I just don’t know what to answer, bacause here I have probably mostly an opposite opinion.
I can’t see that free aim does a bad job with a Heavy. It is just a different form of aim to the not free aimed “standard” shot and already not always the best choice, that’s all.

RB takes from Overwatch = shot sector (width does not change by the player manually), end of turn.
The shot sector replaces Free Aim, allowing the player not to concentrate on accuracy, but to achieve the target with quantity / repetition. The sector can be (like RB) directed in the desired direction, the width of the sector consists of “weapon accuracy - 30% (for non-HW -60%)”.

And then no normal shots left over? Only sector sweep and RB = massive sector sweep?

Imo, I don’t see the need for a swipe. Why is this?

This is not bad idea as I think about heavy burst weapons and more fire options. The problem is mostly about heavy burst weapons and for that reason, SS does not want to add more then as we have.

More AP can open many ways for more weapon special actions. As our 4 AP system, some skills are game/logic breaking. For example RB, which is only useful option for heavy burst weapons, needs 3 AP as same as normal burst shot… you are giving same time for 1 burst and 5 burst same time. This is totally broken.

BUT 4 AP is still enough for other kind of things. You can add a faster assault rifle attack like 1 Ap/ 3 shot bursts, sniper got already quick shot. Pistols are suffering badly here as their damage is very bad compared 1 AP but you can just balance it to make it fire 2 shot rather then one for example. The problem is mostly about heavies and heavy burst weapons as you can handle cannons and explosives with 4 AP easily…

All 3 heavy burst weapons are worst options in this game when there is multiclass and random weapon perks, without RB. BUT I think we can solve this with some weapon balance and proper heavy burst weapon skills which uses WP for heavy class. Like quick shot of snipers, heavies can have more concentrated shot types.

Heavy weapon AP problem could be solved just balancing shot number per burst here. As it is, the normal burst of heavy could be used as 2 AP rather then 3 as it’s not worth for 3. BUT the problem I have about this is, heavy burst weapons should able to BURST better in one turn somehow with a new skill before lvl 4. I talk about a mini RB which is hip attack without free aim.

3 AP with double shot of normal burst as hip attack. So simple. A skill replaces Bash.

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So the burst is centred at a fixed cone and the cone defines/shows accuracy? … (animated as a sweep/swipe (?) :stuck_out_tongue: )

What should this achieve? It changes nothing compared to the current system with the exception of a different view and some maths that make it even more inaccurate:

I am against any sector/cone attacks for burst weapons. It’s not logical, not make sense and as the game does, it’s not effective if you don’t shoot a building in front of you.

I tried RB with some scenarios with some enemies in the cone and it failed so badly… so it’s not what it should be. Rather then a cone, I would have a hit attack without free aim and give a acc penalty… at least I know that I will attack what I want rather then shooting everywhere but the target.

Oh wow! We have two new Community Councillors here … congrats :smiley: :wave:

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In the current RB, weapon swipe is implemented. And shots go beyond the beams of the sector. Because the rays = the center of the circle Aim.

Rage Burst is completely garbage with Cthulhu (spoiler) - #12 by etermes

This is sufficient if implemented correctly. When a minus turns into a plus, it’s a double effect.

It sucks as a result… it’s already pretty useless if you are just far away more then 3 steps… Heavy burst weapon Aoe is not needed anyway. Nobody would use it against more then one target. It’s a melee range ultra burst attack for big size enemies which is mostly only scylla. Because for others, just use 3 bash if you just want to kill a human sized enemy… anyway this is not the discussion for this topic.