Backer Build 3 - Bugs and Suggestions for Changes

I’ve put in about 4-5 solid hours into Backer Build 3 so far, and I mostly enjoyed it. For a demo of the tactical experience it is good, though the performance in a few areas was kinda meh at times, at least in 4k, and while I know it is far from the complete build, I’m hoping to see a few things changed (more on that below the Bugs Found section). It is a significant jump from BB2, and I can in general say that it was a good set of changes, the few caveats mainly being balance (i.e. Miniguns of Death from the Heavy and the PP Grenade Launcher of Doom), or similar.

At one point, I all the AI w/ guns vanished, and were replaced totally by the melee armed w/ grenade launchers; not sure if this was intentional or not, so it’s not labeled in either category below.

Bugs Found:

*Enemies spawning literally right next to troops (I sent in-game bug report for this one in particular)
*Bleed Effects not triggering properly in various circumstances (inconsistent, likely multiple bugs); enemy has about a 50/50% chance of bleeding to death when they should (i.e. 1 bar left); from memory, not necessarily 100% accurate, appears to occur most often when one enemy has already bled out that ‘battle’
*Explosives not destroying terrain or not dealing damage; I know that they stated they intended to reduce the reliable nature of explosives, not sure if this is intentional or a bug; I’d suggest making explosive damage scale based on closeness to center-point
*Invisible Enemies, in particular, when invading the Alien Base with Eggs (no Queen), the Eggs tended to be invisible about 30% of the time, my characters would have an option to shoot at something, but there would be nothing (visibly) there
*Reload bug, during a Haven Mission, when reloading, the new clip only added one bullet (when reloading while at 1 bullet in chamber); this was not a consistent issue, and resolved itself later that mission by continual reloading
*Massive FPS drops in Haven, minor-moderate in Hive (not Lair); I am playing in 4k; FPS drops occur in Geonet and Layouts as well
*Grenade Launcher (PP) does not have a working portrait
*Many non-primary weapons (Pistols, Shotguns) do not work with the Keybind for Overwatch

Gameplay Changes Suggestions:
*General gameplay difficulty revamp, everything should be a lot harder to kill, or otherwise be a lot stronger (without resorting to the grenade spam that did almost take out a soldier, once); other than that single time, I never came close to losing a soldier, and he got full healed the immediate turn after
*Bring back Overwatch Will-Cost, the amount of free-will I had flying around at one point allowed my assault characters to take the equivalence of about 5-6 turns, and that was only for murdering the random enemy standing right next to spawn w/ a shotgun, walking 5 feet past where said enemy was, and sending the heavy up into the tower with his jetpack; I was sitting on like 18 will?
*There were waaaaaaay too many Havens compared to alternative content. I don’t know if the scavenging options are intended to respawn (or spawn over time), but based on BB3, we need to murder a few dozen Havens
*I played enough to be able to hire a new character, I was somewhat disappointed that I could not personally choose the new soldier; we should be able to determine what character to go for next, especially if we will be able to recruit other classes (or class-systems/technologies) from other Havens
*Nerf the miniguns of death from the Heavy, it was oneshotting boss-level opponents, literally, a little ridiculous in raw power.
*Nerf dat Grenade Launcher, like u wot m8, I get 12 Grenades a clip o_0
*If used up, in a mission where we receive a lot of loot, replace the items that we had at the start, out of those that we gather from the mission (i.e. the loot missions), instead of all of them being sent back to base
*Probably intended for a later build, but might as well mention it anyways, clarify the benefits and drawbacks of the different weapons and armors, especially when used outside the ‘proper’ or expected class. I.e. slapping an assault rifle onto my Technician seemed to make them randomly start ‘fumbling’ when using it, messing up Overwatches often in particular.
*Make AI automatically seek out the players, or otherwise having the location of said AI become known, when there is no contact nor visuals for the Player for an extended time period (3+ turns for example). Perhaps put a minimum on it, i.e. must be fewer than 3 enemies left, and then just mark a general location where the closest enemy is. At times I found myself scrounging across the entire map, ultimately finding an enemy after awhile, where he was hiding next to where another enemy had died, but due to the angle-clip I hadn’t seen him, and he never did anything until I found him.

The suggestion for bringing back the Will-Cost to Overwatch, is to keep up the speed of the gameplay, I’d rather not feel particularly compelled to spam out Overwatch every turn; choosing not to do so while having the option for free (except for more limited movement; impedes speed of play significantly though as a result) penalizes you for not, whereas having to take an opportunity cost reinforces the benefits of not doing so based on discretion.

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My first mission was with armoured gunners, or tanks with grenades. More than 10 of crabmen around my 5 soldiers and every one of them returning fire, all had 11 HP and 2 armour on almost every part of the body - it was really painful fight - actually I won but left with only one soldier. So I considered this as a lost battle. So guns didn’t disappear, you were just lucky that you didn’t found them.

I would say that will cost of overwatch is not needed. It is quite inaccurate compared to manual aim and use only half bullets of normal burst, so not so effective. I really prefer using fire action instead of overwatch. Problem you have described is more about abundance of will points boosters. Probably soldiers should receive only 1 point for a kill and maybe less than 5 for objective.

This one sir is good point! I had 11 havens of 11 unknown sites around my base. So nothing to scavenge and I needed to wait for base defence mission. And as I mentioned it was fu*nny hard as for starting mission

Believe me that MG was really helpful in my difficult mission - it is powerful but on the other hand uses ammo so fast - you can use whole starting ammo in 2 turns. And GL would really come in handy in my first mission. They can be life saver. Just need to be more expensive if are so powerful. :wink:

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Thusfar, I’ve noticed the game freezes after overwatch kills sometimes (took out a mindfragger trying to leap on my tech that way), Reloading medikits causes the game to freeze as well.

other than that, loving the hell out of the Grenade Launchers. makes things a lot easier when you’re clearing out an alien base. as for the guy who said the ammo should be lowered, remember this is a game that we’re eventually gonna need Tanks and Mechs to deal with some enemies, as well as dealing WITH said Tanks and Mechs, so having a High-Capacity Grenade Launcher is still something we want to have our hands on, specially as it also saves inventory space, since a trooper doesn’t need to carry normal grenades if they’ve got one as well.

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Be able to have a view of enemies from height. It seems from roofs I can’t view any crabs

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yep, also, making sure models of enemies spawn in if in view. been noticing “invisible” Crabmen a lot starting out on a mission despite being in view of the troops.

also should be noted, sometimes the animation wigs out when a trooper is trying to jump over a railing on a ledge, and hang and rubber band until they’re on the ground to move.

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There is a bug when the technician deploy a turret in a square occupied by a team member. The team member can’t move anywhere

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I did initially encounter Gunman, I’m saying that a few missions in, they all stopped appearing, I only got Mindfraggers, and the melee-grenade launcher variants after that. Could just be unlucky, or bugged; best bet is to use explosives when enemies are bunched up, or otherwise too deadly to leave alive.

On the subject of wiping out the enemy, you are using cover or obstacles to LoS other enemies that can return fire (i.e. running into a building where you only one enemy can see you, the one you intend to kill)?

The biggest issue I had was the occasional enemy playing peekaboo, and popping out of nowhere, to either grenade spam us to death, or scream out ‘banzai’ as they charge in (choosing to melee than to grenade launch for some reason, when melee means certain death).

On another note, what I didn’t mind, was running out of ammo somewhat consistently; I often didn’t bother to ‘reload’, as that would use up the spare clip(s) of ammo that I brought along, preferring to just use the character as a gatherer, healer, explosives, or scouting/will-point-generator.

Try going on overwatch with a sniper with a pistol when you have no ammo for the rifle they’ll magically shoot from the rifle. Future tech I suppose.

Yup can confirm this.

Lol nice. I would never though of doing something like that. :wink: At least not until I would try really hard to screw things up.

It all depend on alien nest types which are in vicinity (single nest produce single type of mutation)

Of course i’m using obstacles to reduce enemy LoS, but there were so many of them that they were standing close to each other. If I attacked one at least 3 of them were returning fire. And animation of my soldiers stepping out of the cover didn’t help here with hiding. :wink:

Oi, lads, I’m back.
Well, BB3 is certainly more leap than a step, but if its forward? Its debatable.
Bad things

  1. Turrets. Killing friendly soldiers if they get mind-fragged, and not going back to inventory after combat.
  2. Crabman fire. From what looks like (and I’m pretty sure it is) .50 cal. is crabman weapon. Now, that think packs a punch, but it is inaccurate, especially if you fire it one handed without stabilization. Crabman rarely miss, less than phoenix soldiers (with auto-aim).
  3. Mindcontrol. I have played almost every Xcom and Xcom clone on the block. Mindcontrol is present in most of them, but in late game, when you have well trained and armed soldiers. Considering that my guys (aside from abilities) are absolutely the same strength as crabmen (or weaker), there is not much point in opponent so small and annoying as mind-fragger. As I noted already, only one who is threatened by mind-fragged soldier is he/she him/herself.
  4. Randomness. I liked about Phoenix Point BB2 that it was least random and most tactical Xcom game ever. In BB3 somehow, its the opposite. I would aim manually and have no clue what will happen 80% of the time. If its on auto, anything can happen. Problem is, I don’t feel guilty when I lose a man, nor do I feel proud when I kill him. Might as well be watching a playthrough for all I can influence. And not only in battles. I got my base in Brunei (half the people can’t even find it on the map, for good reason), and could not get anywhere. reached maybe 3 heavens, and found 0 sites, so I just restarted.
  5. Losses. Now, I did not intend to talk about this, its more of a joining the debate. Casualties are very easily achieved, as crabmen will target lowest hp target 100% of the time. Damage goes from 0-5 with no way of prediction (as stated above). So they could be shooting at you for turns doping 0 dmg, or insta-kill you. You can’t know.
  6. Faces. All soldiers have the same faces, even female ones.
  7. Turns. Crabman get stuck on their turns, sit there for a few minutes doing nothing.
  8. Items. Not stacking items in the base makes a nightmare finding anything.
    Good: Everything else, really happy that I can finally see Strategic layer, but I would like to see research ASAP. Its kinda pointless without it, and its probably simplest to implement.
  1. So they have good IFF system. :wink: But yes they could omit controlled soldiers. BTW right now when it is not possible to retrieve turret I’m not using them. Snapshot was mentioning that they will be folded and you will be able to relocate them.
  2. Believe me they miss more than your soldiers. If they would not then all their bullets would make strainers from your soldiers. Btw their guns are like their arms, they are natural stabilizers. But you need to keep away from those crabmen with guns and use sniper rifle and assault rifle to deal with them. Or heavy in short range.
  3. No point in mindfraggers? Stop right there mister. This is the best and entertaining enemy right now. :wink: Btw your soldiers are way better than average crabmen. And mind control in other games come late because enemies wielding such power are powerful. Mindfragger is little piece of… cake which you squish with your shoe. So can be in early game. Just hold pistol with all your troops for emergency removal of living helmet.
  4. Enemies tend now to be better armoured. So you need to be more careful what you shoot at. And geoscape randomness is not ballanced because of its first iteration.
  5. Yeah soldier recruitment cost could be less expensive, but it is first iteration of geoscape so nothing strange about that.
  6. pre-alpha
  7. you can also do that. It’s their tactic. I bet that when you will try to get closer (in their attack range) they will move. :slight_smile:
  8. pre-alpha, and Snapshot mentioned that there will be filtering, sorting, pivoting and VBA-ing. :wink:

You know what? About that first point. It is mostly because turret has it’s move just before your turn. I would say that bleeding is in the same category of issues. It is applied before each side turn. I think that turret should act at the end of players turn. The same should happen with the bleeding. It should be applied after the turn. It would make possible for you (and the enemy) to react to such situation. Enemy got hit you with the bleeding, you have your turn to stop that bleeding. Enemy got your soldier with mind-fragger? You have turn to act before automated defence systems will make cheese of him.

I’m afraid my point did not get trough, like that time we could not agree on early game diversity. Last three points are just things I pointed out, not really important, but deserved mention. First point is, again, because of randomness. Turret one-shooted my full-hp soldier. I also have to mention I dislike using grenades, and usually don’t use them even if I have to, so it might be the reason for opposite opinions and notices. Again, I feel that game is way too random, but I think soldier progression and research will make it a bit smarter. When I mentioned stuck, I mean literally stuck not doing anything. Also, I have to agree that overwatch should cost willpoint, as it is extra effort keeping your finger on trigger and scanning for slightest movement. For mindfraggers I disagree, because you cant stop them from attacking you (when in cover, you can’t even see them), and when they attack you, they die next turn, achieving f&*@-all. Especially with opponents randomly spawning.

Btw, where are those nice pointers (lines with heaven name coming upward) from globe prototype? Will they be there in final verison?