Addressing Siren complaints

She comes out of no where!

Siren’s are easily perceivable, however, if she can, she will approach and take cover behind something tall, attempting to block sight. The reason why she keeps coming out behind corners is because that’s the siren’s behavior. If you are moving along through the map towards a building, or rocks, or w.e. ask yourself, “Am I screwed if there is a siren around the corner?” If so, you probably shouldn’t be there.

She mind controlled all my soldiers

And who’s fault is that? Don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Positioning matters. Spreading out enough so that Aoe’s don’t kill everyone (and yes consider mind control a PBaoe), but close enough so that your soldiers can assist one another will mitigate disasters from all mobs and prevent your campaign from being derailed.

I can’t beat her with Phoenix equipment, she has too much health and armor

Yes, you absolutely can, and no, she has an average amount of health and an average amount of armor. It’s important to remember however, that she will have no limb that has below 20 armor.
Some numbers.
Ares (PP assault rifle) : 6x30 = 180 potential damage. Maximum damage to a siren for 2 action points is 60. Disregarding maximum health penalties and bleed, you need to shoot her about 9-10 times assuming every bullet connects on her weakest limb to kill her. That’s a total of 20 action points. Its the complete turn, assuming all can fire, of five soldiers. Even with the worst weapon against her, she is completely killable in a turn.
Cypher (PP Handgun) 1x50 = 50 damage. With the armor mechanic, it does the same amount of damage as the assault rifle after 4 action points. 120 damage for a full turn of AP.
Firebird (PP Sniper rifle) 1x110= 110 damage.90 damage with a full turn of AP and no abilities.
Hel II Cannon (The PP Heavy Weapon) 1x180 = 180 damage. 160 damage with a full turn of AP.
Mercy (The PP shotgun): 8x40 =320 damage. It does 320 damage with a full turn of AP.

Tldr: Buy a shotgun. It only takes two soldiers with dash and shotguns to kill a siren.

I need level 7 soldiers to fight sirens

I wish I was kidding. No, you do not.
Dash- Lvl 2 ability (see above).
Quick aim- Lvl 3 ability (can let you shoot her twice with SR, can help break the head from a distance)
Armor Break- Lvl 2 ability (This + grenade = no armor) Ps. I recommend a fire grenade if you have it.
Brawl- lvl 2 ability (smacking her with a heavy’s weapon multiple times does a surprising amount of damage with this perk)

This is more than enough to kill early sirens with basic equipment. If you encounter them later, they shouldn’t be an issue.

It should be easier to break mind control

The head can be broken by a single soldier, with basic equipment and low level abilities. If one soldier can break it, its not that difficult to break. After the nerf to return fire, you essentially have a full turn to deal with her before the mind control is a problem. It’s still technically a stun, and that is dangerous, but that’s more than enough time, assuming you didn’t run someone off to do something crazy.

If you don’t play cautiously, leaving a priest in the back lines to panic stun mind control soldiers can buy you time until you deal with her.

Mind Control costs too little, she shouldn’t be able to capture all my soldiers in a turn

Mind control costs what ever the current will power of the soldier is. If she takes all your stuff in a single turn, this means that:

  1. They are too close together.
  2. Your soldiers do not have nearly any will power. (meaning you are not managing or traiting this stat properly)

Although she has 30 WP max, its very likely that she will be under 20 by the time you engage her due to mobs dying and frenzy casting (if she has it). She should only really be able to capture 2 soldiers with average banks (around 8 wp). Worst case, being blind sided in a bad spot, you should be losing 2 soldiers to mind control.

Tldr: She can’t just do this, there are many conditions which are under your control to prevent this.

I will edit as I see siren complaints. Hope this helps someone. Sorry about the tone.

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The first few times you meet Sirens, they CAN be difficult (especially when there’ 3-4 in a map) but certainly not OTT. (pretty much just because of your equipment/low level soldiers)

I actually fear mind-fraggers more. Stupid tiny pricks lol

Sirens will hide until you get close enough to them (same with fragger). Sometimes you can keep them from ever approaching your squads, till you deal with the chaff. By then, their will is super low anyway

Alternatives are turrets. Throw a couple of the piercing turrets near one (or just in a good location) and control it. 1-2 shots will kill a siren (basic turrets are fine too, just not AS effective). Or spider drones. Once you can spam them, you can annihilate huge groups of aliens at once. It’s very funny (kinda resource heavy)

So it’s not Siren that are panicking soldiers?

Other than this point I learned nothing from OP but that, and think last patch added a huge change to Sirens so now they are more ok. I still think two Sirens is something else, without sniping/heavy roster focus. But it’s more a general design problem of the game, related to bad balances, particularly shorter range vs longer range.

What would make the Siren as a interesting and acceptable enemy would be if she needed to be a little closer, before she can MC. As it is, it feels like a AI cheat were she can MC from such a considerable distance. First thing you say when she does this is " No ******g way"

Recently I had the exact same thought, I wondered if that could change something.

That said I admit I was eventually more disturbed by panics generating a lot of troubles, but if Sirens can’t create panic… the point isn’t covered in OP… I need play more and analyze better, but I won’t for now, a very short Easy try and noticing game breaking bugs, enough, I’ll wait next bug patch.

The Siren’s Psychic scream ability uses 3AP I believe (+WP, assuming it’s the same as the Priest’s) This limits its range considerably. If you know they have that head (a smooth sea shell like head) then you should spread your team out, so she can only get 1-2max. There’s also a few perks that make your soldiers immune to panic, so they’re important if you face a lot of that variant (I’ve mostly fought the frenzied head - twig like antlers)

Southlane - What’s funny about the statement on the Siren’s MC range, is that on the flip-side with a Priest, I usually feel like whatever I want to MC is too far away (Once again, it should be the same range - 10 tiles)

I think for one, the speed at which we burn through WP on abilities vs the alien’s innate large WP pool, and the fact the computer is FAR more opportunistic that a human player (no point in MCing the crippled alien, just because their WP is low etc) makes the Sirens seem more dangerous than they are. When the reality is (at least atm) we have a team of super-soldiers, at least equal to the strongest alien in power.

As an aside on balance. I’d like to see fewer aliens per mission, but each is more powerful and tough. Something you’d have to pick apart with precision and teamwork over a turn or two. If even an Arthron felt like a mobile tank to your puny humans, then maybe the game would have a more gritty feel?

Maybe then, things like the worms and perhaps something like a mind-fragger, but for combat could make up the numbers?

Like I said above, shotguns are the most effective way of dealing damage at low-tiers. Two sirens can be killed by 4 low level troopers in one turn. This is with a straight-up approach, no synergy, or high-level abilities required. I don’t understand how this is bad design.
A siren can only make a soldier panic by Psychic Screaming, infecting you with the virus by stabbing, killing civilians or your soldiers. The only way a soldier panics is by their will being reduced below zero.
It isn’t to say she isn’t a dangerous mob. She needs to be taken down quickly either before or after she engages you. I would say that heavy/sniper focus is simply inferior in the early game compared to speed+dash+shotgun. The only PP weapon that is truly awful against her is the ares assault rifle. But a berserker with a grenade fixes that anyway.

It has the same range as the priests, and that range isn’t much. It’s the exact same ability.

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No way you two shot kill a siren, no way you four soldiers will be miraculously well placed to do two shoot each, even less 8 perfect shoot. I’m not sure have yet killed a Siren in 4 shots without Rage Burst, and if it happens, never in one turn.

EDIT: What many comments aren’t saying is keep under control is a cost of Will at each turn, this limits Sirens control abilities. For panics, it’s another matter, and one more game bad balance between shorter range and longer range.

It only takes one soldier to kill a siren in one turn with a shotgun.
It only takes two soldiers to kill two sirens.
It takes four soldiers to kill two sirens if they are not in perfect position with inefficient gear.
I have never NOT killed a siren in single a turn.
If you can’t kill her break her head and then kill another trash mob, she’ll panic and it will buy you a turn.

I haven’t yet those shotgun one shot kill a Siren, or more exactly I never had those shotgun in the 3 campaigns attempts, I’ll wait next big patch for more.

Moreover if one shot kill is the solution then Siren are bad tactical design.

No, it takes two shotgun shots to kill her. A single soldier can shoot twice in a turn with dash at point blank range. And no, that is not bad design. A pointblank shotgun should hurt.

There are plenty of solutions to the siren. This forum was discussing low-tech solutions, because there are so many complaints about battling sirens without tech, weapons, or high-level soldiers.

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Earliest i have hit a siren was at squad level 3-4, noone yet multiclassed and no shotguns made yet. Pair of snipers can make short work of the sirens head though, and if you then have your heavy jetpack in and use their shout to lower AP the siren cannot recover will for two turns so will usually just run for cover. Great way to disable them to more easily get the first capture.

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No shotgun and character I use can do that, no way. Are your sirens without any armor? Weird, Two shot to disable head ok, with shotgun hardly without luck or with sniper equipment perhaps.

EDIT: Moreover if a Siren is close enough for shotgun range for a dash ability, where was she at previous team, sleeping admiring your team? :slight_smile:

I guess you can only lead a horse to water.

Yes, breaking the head sets their will to zero, and then you can panic stun them. It’s safer.