Tac loads (retain used magazine)

But this is the core of this game. You should be afraid and worried that your soldiers run out of ammo. This game has its own goal to terrify you and your troops. Not like Fxcom where you could spam ammunition like you had factory of it nearby.

Sure, but you dont need partial mags to run out of ammo.

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Well, if you’re reloading early to always be prepared and have full ammo in your weapon, then after a few turns you may be left with some “almost empty” clips.
To fix it I would welcome a separate (costly) action in your inventory, where you do a refill eg. three 5/20-bullet clips into one 15/20-bullet clip.
Manual reloading and switching ammo types is IMO an important feature from original X-Com.

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Ok, so you actually opt for partial ammo reload for less TU? That would make you reload more often and in the end would cost more/same. This is not a shooter game, and ammo was never unlimited, there is a RTS Dune style game genre for mass production of units and unlimited ammo :slight_smile:

The point of mechanics is to play as team, cover one reloading etc. like in realistic team operations.
One missed on PC was SWAT team sim, Sabre Team AGA that shows it well

Large weapons like rocket launcher should have 1 shot - 1 reload (and costly one) mechanics to prevent it from overpower.

That’s something that happens in the BB but they told is not going to happen in the final game, if you still have x bullets remaining you will keep this bullets, specially because differnent type of ammo are planned and you will be switching mags deppending on the enemy you face.

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If we understand reload as just changing the ammo clip, then it should cost the same, no matter if it is full or partial reload. I was referring to the issue of having the partially empty ammo clips, I may not explained myself clearly, sorry.

Here’s an example of what I have in mind:

  • a soldier is equipped with five ammo clips, 20 bullets each,
  • a soldier performs reaction fire (5 rounds) and then shoots twice on player’s turn (5 rounds x2), having now an ammo clip with 5/20 bullets,
  • the player prepares for incoming firefight and clicks “reload” on the weapon, but instead of filling the weapon from an infinite ammo pool (like in FiraXCOM), the ammo clip gets changed, so now the weapon has a new clip with 20/20 rounds and in the backpack there is an used 5/20 ammo clip,
  • repeat this a few times and now the soldier has only 5/20 ammo clips, which kinda sucks when the player is trying to reload weapon and only gets 5 new rounds.

And the question is, how to handle this?
Spend a turn in the inventory screen, refilling the half-empty clips into one full clip? It would be more realistic but a bit micro-managey (I like the word). Unless there will be a button “consolidate remaining ammo” that would do it automatically for like 75% TU.
Or just click “reload” twice, to load rounds from two clips, for twice the TU cost? Easier to use without entering the inventory, but quite confusing IMO.

I would prefer the first option and manage the partial ammo on the inventory screen, it would fit nicely with exchanging equipment with squad members and borrow some ammo or pass it to another soldier.

I think that in this situation when you will click reload, you will load 20 rounds from 4 magazines, or at least I hope so. :slight_smile: Or if not, so maybe there will be cost in Inventory for consolidating ammo which will take around 50% TUs, and no matter how many magazines you will merge and for how many weapons. So more likely your first option.

BTW. Return fire and overwatch fire use only half of bullets from normal burst (except single shot). :wink:

I think that the player should choose what clip he wants to use, again having different ammo types you need the option to choose wich clip equip, and each clip should display how many rounds it has.

Please forgive me if this has been covered already, and not looking at game mechcanics, but where did the artificial limit of 20 rounds/bursts come from? In the setting we’ve been knocked back to an almost scavenger society, and in “real” history no modern assault rifle is limited to 20 rounds. Millions of M4/AK magazines have been produced and they all have a 30 round capacity. Nearly all modern soldiers carry a minimum of 6 magazines for their primary weapon so what has happened to the millions of older weapons and magazines that were made before the setting of the game?

They were shot into the mist :wink:

20 round limit was just an example. Actual magazine size of burst weapons are: 28 for PDW, 24 for Assault Rifle and 60 for Machine Gun.

Thank you for the reply, so the magazines are “artificially” low capacity in relationship to”real” life? For example the M249 SAW has an ammo bag of 200 rounds. I just wish game designers who create such detailed semi realistic worlds added a bit more thought to the realism of small unit tactics and weapons. People may complain about XCOM2’s unlimited ammo but in real terms such short engagements would mean the troops wouldn’t run out of small arms ammo.

Probably too many bullets would create too much randomness and difficulty in balancing things or there would be too much computing stress to the engine. Who knows. I don’t mind that game weapons are not copies of real life weapons. If they kill that is enough for me. :wink:

Fair enough if it is down to game engine limitations, if not it just seems to be an arbitary limit that, for me, breaks the “realism” ( I know not to be taken seriously when we’re talking about invasions of almost Lovecraftian horrors) :wink:

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Most likely it’s all down to they decided how many rounds it fires per burst, and then decided how many bursts they wanted a given weapon to be capable of. Maybe not the ideal way of doing it. May also be a remnant of playing around with a select fire system.

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Nice idea. It would be great to have