I’m aware I had the firepower to take them out, but the map had a lot of open space and my squad was level 3-4 so no uber skills there. No way I could have saved the resources, no reason to risk my guys for a bit of XP. I just grabbed what I could pick up and pulled out before the shooting started.
But there many of these combinations that are great in some cases and not that good in others. Both, SR and Goliath, are mostly useless in Pandoran Nests or some heaven defenses where you have to fight in buildings. Here a simple shotgun with dash begins to shine and even pistols are often a good ‘shorty’ in this cases. The simple handgrenades are also very usable in different situations. AR are jack of all trades and master of nothing, but mostly not that bad.
Multiple solutions for multiple circumstances, almost situational and not ‘the one that beats them all’ … at least from my perspective.
Oh, my new hobby, an edit:
That is also for me a general problem with scavenging sites and because of this I already pass them to the mid-endgame and then more to spend SP for my TC-level7-‘rookies’ with proper equipment. In the early game I find them too risky for too little reward and i focus more on exploration, story missions, heaven defenses and clearing the first nests/lairs.
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Yes
In other cases they are not the “kings” either, but imo much better than the other weapons, because, as I said, no superhero necessary, no level. 7. But above all, you don’t have to rescue anything when using it, you don’t even have to move.
Downsides are:
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Snipers have low armor and normally can’t hide properly after a shot, so they are often a primary target for the enemies and then getting hit hard. On most maps they are very vulnerable and close ranged maps are more often present than the open ones. They need LOS to get their damage safely done and many maps are full of obstacles to make it sometimes a frustrating tile per tile move with often not very good views on the target. Highground would be their preferred place but is not that present at many maps and also very dangerous because of indirect fire from the Pandas.
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Heavies have strong armor but are also very slow and often it is not that easy to get them in postition for the grenade launcher. At least the Goliath is a gamble, you can get all from oneshot to almost no damage because hitting a small leaf of a tree.
True is, much better is none of the other weapons but also there is not much weaker.
A level 2 assault with shotgun and dash is a nowbrainer on many maps. Dash in, shot, dash back in cover. Even a rookie assault with handgrenades and AR is very good and efficient for peek-a-boo and almost save if you use the environment clever on almost any map with the exception of a citadel. Priests? I think I don’t have to say much more, they for themself are a good weapon from level 2 on. Berserker gets armorbreak on level 2, beside dash for me one of the best level 2 skills in the game and independent from weapon, use grenades and smile. Infiltrators are a bit weak at low level but there nice hidden scouts and their crossbows are not that bad (they are now silent after the last patch, untested). Technician can simply ‘spell’ an additionial Teammember with a heavy gun, at least to distract the enemies.
Many low level solutions and for me personally mostly strong enough to get at least on par with a rookie sniper or heavy with goliath. And all of them are more flexible because they don’t need to go for a good LOS or angle for 1 AP and then sitting there as a nice target for the pandas.
I agree, and if there are balance issues with the weapons they are not with SR… Or with Goliath, for that matter (not that it’s bad, but it’s also situational… And the ammo is really expensive).
@walan The other weapons also don’t require superheros, or lvl7s to be useful. Mostly they require using combined tactics.
For example, when it comes to fighting the Foresaken or the Pure early in the game my preferred solution is… Hell cannon (not necessarily wielded by an accuracy buffed build) /SCARAB and AR or shotgun. First breaks the armor, the second lands the killing blow.
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That depends on your point of view. Yours is likely: the other weapons could catch up minimally. (or maybe leave everything?)
My approach would be: leave other weapons and then adjust SR and Goliath a little (weaken). In my view, everything in PP is far too deadly. So I would adjust against alpha strike.
Strangely, you take a different stance today than I usually read from you … 
Maybe I’m wrong too.
I also do not dispute that other weapons can be effective. The examples of both you and @MadSkunky show that certain preparations have to be made (run to the enemy, shred armor, …) or not?
The SR and grenade launcher are “easier” and therefore more “useful” for me personally (in most situations). Someone has already said that: wasn’t that you @VOLAND?
Yes sure, but, with the exception of citadel maps, mostly someone needs to spot the targets for the sniper or goliath-heavy and then they often also have to move for LOS or right angle/distance. So mostly there are also have to be made certain preparations to get them work properly.
But after that soldier with SR or GL don’t have to do much. They just fire. With soldier equipped with shotgun or AR you would still need to move to get proper angle or range.
When it comes to weapons, leave everything, pretty much. I think Synedrion weapons (AR especially) warrant a look with a view to a small nerf (perhaps I would take away its shredding, to make the NJ options somewhat more attractive).
My view is that weapons is not where the problem is at. That’s why I keep bringing up the hell cannon example: it’s a balanced weapon, until you get into excessive mobility and accuracy buffs.
good point
Yes, the main problem is somewhere else
And the enemy always moves into the Los of the sniper? They don’t do that often enough.
For me often few tiles movement is enough to get another target. I don’t need to move whole turn or something like that.
No, but if your team see them and no obstruction block the shot, you can shoot them. It’s not rare to have a few foes that can be shot from your spawn location. Many maps have large open space you can abuse of, and some also provide high perch you can shoot from.
They do in the Citadel, where the Sniper shines best - or at least the game-ending Maguffin does.
But before you go off on one, look above - I’m not calling for the SR to be nerfed, just making the point.
You cannot nerf this weapon in a vaccuum. If it is nerfed, then enemies must be as well, otherwise you will make the game even more difficult than it already is. Note that the Sniper Rifle itself is fairly well balanced, but the abilities of characters are not, such that in combination the problems spoken about emerge.
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Absolutely agree. SR is one weapon that in balance.
Hmmm yep see what your getting at. Could you have a Sniper have two distinct modes, One where its two aps a shot but no movement at all, this would be a ‘nested’ stance. and one where her can move but can only use side arms? Maybe someone else suggested this, just crossed my mind.
Oh and used dash last night on new patch restart, abush mission, dashed my last covering Assults to the extration point.
And onthe Crabbies with MG. yeah they were double hellish for me for a while because for some reason return fire for my guys never seemed to activate. It does a bit better now and you learn how to manage them. It’s just when I get that loose RF and HMG Crabby that makes a milk run into a clusterF among my muttered threats is the 'how the hell to you build and maintain these? who is doing the surgery to implant these? It isn’t a mutation but it isn’t stuff they have picked up either. I think on your point that we need these lads at the end of the day, I agree, but I think thats because there isn’t quite the variety of Panda available.
Now you’ve gone a done it! I am just under a month (in-game-time) into a new campaign. I’ve successfully completed special missions for 2 of the factions. But that is were this thread has cursed me. 1 of the factions is Anu, and of course they offer no sniper recruits. The 2nd is Synedrion, and I would love to get one of their snipers. But they are only offering 1 assault recruit. All others are Aspida vehicles. Not a single sniper to be had.
To add insult to injury, the New Jericho special mission is clear across the globe and there is no way to reach it. But if the curse continues, by the time I get there, the only recruits on offer will be elite (techs).
The extreme randomness of this game confounds me at times. The initial dice rolls at the start of the game can end up game breakers, but one doesn’t know this until hours upon hours into the game.
Sorry to stray from the original topic … but I found it amusing how this turned out, just days after this thread was kicked off. 
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