As an introduction I will say, that despite being dissapointed in what Phoenix Point was after release, I see that game can be changed to make it quite interesting piece of entertainment. Despite all the issues I still like this game to the point I try to follow all topics on the official forum, follow canny, follow some playthroughs on youtube and I play it slowly writing down some informations. And I enjoy it.
I started taking notes of things that irritated me in Phoenix Point and how to eventually change them, how to balance some items. It meant to be comprehensive list of changes to implement in a mod when modding support will be released. Then the list kept growing and expanding. Except fixing issues and changing values of existing mechanics I started to write how new mechanics could look like in conjunction with each other and with existing features. List became quite extensive and I’m not sure if this is good material for a mod. I would like to show it somewhere, but I’m not sure if all those values and features are good to post just like that on the forum or even on canny. Splitting them on many topics would bring replies “Why do you want to change X, it will make Y useless/too powerful” OR “This won’t fit in the game and will ruin my experience and 99% of other players, why on Earth you want to do that?” and I wanted to omit that, because endless fights about one feature always end with fights about other features. From the likes I collected since my first posts on this forum (except meaningless fights with some individuals) I assume my ramblings here have good foundation in logic and reasoning so my ideas may be appealing to some players.
I had some hope I will join Community Council, but it might not happen. Yes, I know that Community Council is not meant to present their own ideas about things in which Council is not involved, but I’m curious if people won’t try to sell their ideas there. The truth is that council’s “work” will mean closer contact with the development team than just writing something on canny.
QUESTION which arose during last week and probably could wait for another month at least: If there won’t be a chance for me to get into Community Council, will there be a way to present long feedback and list of ideas to the development team?
I have it written in Excel right now, but I can paste it elsewhere. I haven’t finished it yet and estimation is that I’m at ~ 70% of it all (still need to think about balance of some alien abilities/mutations, make second balance run on weapons/armors, check if there is nothing overpowered in soldier skills/perks/augmentations/attributes, reiterate all transitions between different screens and even between strategic and tactical part). But I will finish it at some point (another estimation ~ end of June?) and would like to ask someone if there is something interesting to include in the game. Frankly, I try to design it to be complete as one creation with all elements working with each other. And I also know that there can be done even more than what I have written. But maybe it will catch someone’s attention or make a starting point for second Phoenix Point.
With the time, energy and enthusiasm demonstrated I’d put you on the snapshot payroll, nevermind a pro-bono council position
Having said that, you aren’t alone and I hope the folks who have been passionate about the changes are given places, including those who are highly critical.
I must say, that you were one of the prime candidates on my mind, when I read the announcement that the Community Council is being formed. I hope that Snapshot will think the same. If you publish your thoughts in a public space, I will be looking forward to reading, or at least skimming through it.
In my pessimistic scenario, the current Council is assembled to balance the Beginner’s Difficulties. And IMO @Yokes specializes in Legend, which causes little interest from the Devs. (this is a simplification, but essentially close to the truth)
Just curious, but what little birdie has been filling you in with the inside details of the workings of the devs? I only ask because you say “essentially close to the truth”, which implies you know the truth. Please don’t take this reply as an attack, but I was left scratching my head when I read this.
That sounds to me to be an unlikely scenario. As far, as balancing is concerned, data they gather from players on mass, should give more insight then group of selected players. Even so, picking people who actively post on this forum and are aware of this initiative, to balance difficulties designed for newcomers or people unfamiliar with the game would be an odd choice.
Aside from that, UV did express, that CC could be used to quicly get feedback on prototypes and unpolished ideas, which would suggest to me bigger swings, then “rebalancing easy difficulties”.
For a complete answer, I need a lot of examples and links, or just wait for the result within 2-4 weeks.
I suggest that you remind me of this later, or when there are examples of the opposite. I’m ready to admit that I’m wrong, but I don’t see it yet.
Many of the people we’ve invited to the Council have over 100 hour playtime. We have a mix of people who are both newish and experienced with the game.
We’re working on changes across the board, which effect the gameplay and difficulty both on the easy and hard ends of the scale.
I mean the game at harder difficulties. Some of the changes and additions are likely to affect the game at all difficulties.
Your implication is that our use of the Community Council is to focus on the experience for new players or those who play more casually or on easy. This is simply not correct.
This is the minimum position for working with the Council for effective game development. (because this is the target audience)
But for me it is important that the Devs pay attention to those who were bought for “realistic basic mechanics.” These people are perplexed, for example, skills - which are not only OP, but also contradict / break the foundation of “realistic basic mechanics.” What do these people need to do? You do not give what they want and do not explain what to expect.
Seriously, the devs should definitely make a statement in which direction the game should go. This question has come up several times in different threads … without any answer.
Schould the game be XCOM like with a) deeper and more realistic tactics and horror aspects? b) more arcade-like with magic abilities and alpha strike mechanics? c) anything else?
My impression is: The buyers who came via pre-order or fig want a) because the game was advertised the same way. If the direction of the game has changed in the meantime, you (devs) should also communicate this honestly. The foundation of your fans has a right to it!
Strictly speaking, my question is aimed at whether something has changed in the direction in the meantime. For example, the Devs responded very well to the Panda Evolution and clearly communicated. But not to my previously asked question.
I don’t want to scold PP badly here, I just want to know whether certain game mechanics (super powers, alpha strike, lack of horror) are on the ToDo list or not. A simple answer or a canny entry would make a lot of things clear.
With the super powers of the PP-Avangers, I can just run straight over to every enemy, no matter how scary, on the other side of the map and shoot directly at the nose several times. Positioning doesn’t really matter, scary monsters only visually, and so on …
I may sound pissmistic, but it doesn’t seem promising that it won’t be answered.
Edit: I mean, maybe the devs want the game to be more arcade? Then they can say that openly …
My guess is, that they want to introduce a lot more things to the game - that is why they create Community Council when their game was already released almost 5 months ago.
They probably consider different options so giving straight answer “We prefer arcade” or “We want deep and challenging game that only few can finish” is not the best idea right now.
Who knows what those few months ahead of us will bring. If we take above video as some signpost then they probably have many things in development and wonder how will they work with basic game we already have.
And they still have many things to fix and alter, just by following feedback available here and on canny. So even basic game can have a swing, and how it will alter future things is hard to guess. So I wouldn’t expect them to give straight and simple answer.
@Yokes I’m very interested in your suggestions, even though canny is set up to receive those idea’s, I’d much rather discuss extensive feedback and balance suggestions on the forums.
mainly because in canny you would have to chop up the feedback from the suggestion and it would become a collection of parts, much harder to see the big picture and connect the bits and pieces together.
About what the council itself is going to look like, from my perspective its in the word “council” a sounding board, a group or person you can bounce idea’s off and that might offer some of its own if asked, but in the end has no real power to affect the decisions made by the person seeking council or capability to direct the discussions.
This is just how I look at it, I might be completely wrong.
IMHO, PP is pretty much its own thing, and whatever that thing is, it’s distorted by the current balance issues and will change as new stuff is added and old stuff is altered.
I don’t think that arcade vs realism is the question though. The game has too many complex and intricate systems to be arcade. I didn’t realize how complex it was until I started working on that guide…
As to realism… Yes, skills get a lot of heat for being too powerful and working not unlike magic spells (some might say exactly like spells), but on the other hand the willpower system seems to me like a believable portrayal of how morale works - in the sense that it’s not only about success and failure, but also the effort employed: I have no idea what happens during combat, but I think in most fields of human experience that’s exactly the case - putting a lot of extraordinary effort is draining, and receiving a shock when drained can lead to panic.
Perhaps there is a way to make the skills, and other aspects of the game, more “realistic” but keep the depth? @Yokes if you have the time and energy to write your ideas, I encourage you to. I will definitely read them
