Rage burst for sniper / heavy still OP

Phoenix Point Game Feedback
21

Actually, it seems to me that feedback on this forum breaks down into 2 or 3 schools of thought:

  1. “This game is rubbish! It’s nowhere near as good as [insert Name of Favourite Game here], and here is what you have to do to turn it into [insert Name of Favourite Game here].”
  2. “This game is a flawed attempt to do something completely different within the TBS genre; and if only the devs would grasp the nettle and admit that in order to turn a rough diamond into a gem, you have to polish off the rough edges and set it within limits, it would be brilliant.”
  3. “This game is far too hard, and any attempt to limit Squad Skills will only make it harder. How can you cope with an ever-increasing DDA if you can’t magically teleport halfway across the map and nuke the Big Nasty with 1 shot?” [ANSWER: tone down the Big Nasty till you don’t need OP skills to deal with it].

I fit very squarely into School 2, though I recognise the pain of School 3 - but you’re not going to fix the problems of School 3 by making the Squaddies into unstoppable supermen: you have to eradicate the so-called difficulty spike so that you don’t need supermen to survive.

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22

I don’t - see my post at the top of this thread.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that it’s still broken, or that any team of halfway competent snipers can take out a Citadel in 1 or 2 turns.

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23

I take school 2 but think also the developers should never ignore school 3, that would be too bad for the game as a whole because of too much player loss. I think so …

24

Yeah, I would say there is mostly different kind of love, and lot of frustration. And sometimes there also isn’t, because there is a difference between wanting changes and wanting a completely different game.

Yeah, ok what Mike said :wink:

This has nothing to do with wanting an “intense challenge” because we are “hardcore gamers”. This discussion has been had so many times already…

Let me try a different way of putting it: this is a tilted pool table kind of situation. Playing PP is playing solo on a tilted pool table at the moment: making some holes is very easy, making other very difficult and the whole experience is just off.

And you are going to see corrections to the tilt again and again this year and probably further on, because the devs know they can’t release an unbalanced game on Steam.

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I am more like school 1.5, now :stuck_out_tongue:

1.5. This game is a failed attempt to do something slightly different within the TBS genre; and if only the devs would grasp the nettle and admit that in order to turn a rubbish into a gem, you have to finish the game, hire QA, provide a modding support before you introduce even more unbalanced and flawed features and let the community start working on a game they’ve expected, it would be brilliant.”

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I would put myself into school 2. If finished properly this game could be a gem.

For school 3… there will always be players who would like field artillery, airstrikes and tactical nukes to be able to win the map. But that would ruin the experience for the people who like challenges, and IMO most backers are that way.
I have finished game twice, once on rookie and once on veteran, and I haven’t experienced any sudden difficulty spike. Second time I even savescumed to test dynamic difficulty, but nothing happened. And I don’t consider myself particularly good player. I had few unsuccessful tries on veteran though, but that was due to bugs (first panda structure in early game was lair instead of nest, and my base was constantly attacked with me having only lvl 3-4 soldiers).

27

This is an open beta who was called a release for hidden reasons. This game will become X-Com / UFO2022.
There is only one problem, we don’t have the opportunity to forget about the “release” and immediately jump into 2022. (including devs)

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NJ’s Machine Gun + Mark of Death + Rage Burst = more than 3500 dmg - my record, this is nuts. It one shots Scylla everytime. Last boss? Three shots. Way too op. Compare that to berserkers after this patch… Them and mutdogs are useless :confused:

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Stealth bonus seems bugged anyway right now, but would it double the damage for Heavy/Infiltrator with little help in form of MoD from another sniper? :wink:

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Stealth takes some thinking, espacially that you cannot backstab every alien. Heavy Inflitrator is something I haven’t tested, since Heavy most of the time takes some tough armor to use which might make your sneaking upon someone pretty hard.

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Sure sure, just wondering how high you can go with “single shot” damage. You know, for science. :stuck_out_tongue:

32

Probably it should do worse, unless you get Mark of Death from another sniper. My math isn’t great tho.

33

I would argue that 99% of buyers of this game chose a tactical / strategic experience where the game can be classified … But if a skill like RB with sniper / heavy undermines the whole tactic in the boss fight, I doubt whether you can reach this 99% of the players.

On the subject: do not use this skill
Imagine you are a professional athlete and are superior to all your opponents. So that it doesn’t get boring, you decide from now on to play with only one hand. Only after this limitation will the competition be reasonably enjoyable for you. Are you really satisfied after such a win? You know that you can make the whole competition redundant again if you use your magic skills (rage burst with sniper rifle).
.
I am in school 2 of course

34

What i think? Dont … the game for the rest of the last persons that still play the game. Iff you think that this combi is to powerfull dont use ist.

35

As to school 3, this is what happens when you release a game that needed at least 6 months in early access.

(I’m sure there were compelling reasons to do it and I’ll never presume to tell anyone how to run their business - it just is what it is).

I’m, of course, in school 2. I don’t think that the devs attempted to do something just slightly different, they tried (are trying) to tackle the big issues in the (sub)genre.

We are all complaining (some more than others) about the skills, the OP builds, extreme mobility, etc. But this is stuff that comes from trying to do something about the “tactical routine” (the methodical sweep of the map) that plagues the original XComs and variations thereof. (And, for the 100th time, I love the original XComs, they are great games and this is not meant as a criticism, etc, etc.).

For example, yesterday I was playing a mission where I saw 2 groups of enemies, one in a far corner of the map, and another in a nice fort-type building near my squad. So in the first turn I assaulted the fort using CQC and took it over, and on the next turn waited for the larger group of enemies to approach and ambushed them from the windows. Very satisfying, no cheap magic tricks, skill spamming, etc. Nothing particularly epic, but great value for my time. Three action packed turns, not 10, 15 or 25, move, kneel, OW, end turn, repeat.

That is the game I see underneath the mess PP currently is.

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36

Theoretical:
Heavy/Infiltrator with Deceptor, Strongman (+30% for HW), Reckless (+30% for all weapons), Rageburst, the silent double damage boost and mark for death from any sniper …
(40 basedamage + 40 doublestealthbonus + 12 Strongman + 12 Reckless) x 12 Burst x 5 Rageburst x 1,5 MfD = 9.360

But also no opponent with the exception of the final boss where this does not degenerate into absolute waste.

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37

There’s also Expert Heavy Weapons, another +20%. If Mark of Death is applied on top of damage formula, then it can hit for 10080 damage. You are ready to one shot final boss. :stuck_out_tongue:

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38

Unless I’m mistaken, only human opponents get this perk.

39

I broke “my” game by using OP skills. No, you didn’t and no, the game isn’t necessarily broken because you can do it. It seems that every time a new OP combo is discovered, the outcry is to nerf it. If one thinks it’s OP, then it’s their option to not use it and play around it. Sniper rifles are OP, so let’s remove them. Missiles//Rockets are OP, so let’s remove them. As a matter of fact, let’s just arm our Davids with slingshots while we battle Goliath. Oh wait, this is a special slingshot that is OP when the unit has OP skills.

For the record, this post is with tongue firmly in cheek.

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I refer you to the tilted pool table metaphor. This is not about getting the difficulty right - that’s a separate discussion. To continue with the pool table metaphor that would be talking about different table, hole, ball sizes, etc.

OP combos break the game because they break the balance, not because they make the game too easy. They tilt the table - some holes become too easy (using the OP combo) while others too hard (not using it). To be less metaphorical about it, because of OP combos it’s not possible to evaluate or to adjust how difficult the game actually is.

So, first of all, the OP combos are not making your game any easier, they are making it more difficult.

Second, this is not a question of “don’t use it if you don’t like it” - I can not choose to play without a tilt on a tilted pool table.

1 Like