Piranha AR-51 ... no other AR on the same tech level!

“Statistics show that piercing weapons are overused because their power level was not on par with other weapons of the same tech level.”

  • Phoenix points assault rifle is starting gear you level out of as intended
  • Independents matches Phoenix points starter assault rifle
  • New Jericho give you a second assault rifle that is just more damage THEN a third level assault rifle which ignores armor so results in more damage.
  • Synedrion gives you second level assault rifle, based on range which is good for specific style of play.
  • Disciples of Anu don’t even use assault rifles they get a tier 2 shotgun that I always get before phoenix point makes a shotgun, and when I am getting tier 3 assault rifles I am also getting Resistor Head, Regeneration Torso, and Agile Legs mutation (which for some crazy reason is limited to 2).

So New Jericho as the only Tier 3 assault rifle… of course the majority of people are using it.

Disciples of Anu shotgun assault was viable … until dash got nerfed in the same patch… because two shots with the shotgun meant you usually could run point blank and kill your target. Now you will run point blank damage your target, and its likely to kill your assault the next round. That was still fear before when walked around a corner and fond to Arthrons with machine gun arms ready to return fire and cut you in half, but you had a chance to blow off the arm on one, then finish him before he could claw or poison you to death.

Synedrion seems generally harder to ally with and your not likely to get until later in the game with infiltrator/assaults in Acheron armor sets. This lets them use the range, perception, and stealth. I have yet to manage to unlock this in a game. Its also a specific style of play. If you like sneaking around, you might go this route. It could be fun… but most people aren’t going to sneak because stealth with enemy trigger distance is not shown up front like Xcom2. Its almost a one faction system that is a bit vague.

This all means, New Jericho is the ONLY faction give a tier three assault rifle for the style play the majority people will use since Phoenix Point does not start with shotguns or have any significant depiction of stealth. Not until players have learned about the other options and how to use them will they even be considered. New Jericho’s tier 3 however, is a direct upgrade for what the games starts players with so its a natural path for anyone playing the first time or who just prefers direct fire fights without putting their assaults in extreme danger. (for no or little return now that dash uses an action point).

If developers want players to use other styles don’t nurf New Jericho’s their is nothing wrong with it. Instead, introduce a stealth mechanic like Xcom2, where players can tell if they are revealed and which aliens are alerted and introduce it in the tutorial (the mechanics are there it just lacks visual ques and player introduction). Then make dash once per and cost no action points so its about positioning not running all the way across the map. Last give Synedrion a third tier that does 50 damage and 2 paralysis in a 3 round burst.

On top of that when checking your Statistics take into account the number of shotguns replacing assault rifles too.

When it comes to the Raven SR13 , its simply a matter of taking out threats. You need to shoot siren heads and arthron arms. If the other guns are not disabling them in one shot… why do I need them? The Athena NS-2 can be used to capture, but the Gungnir SR-2 does 60 virophage to the over all health it doesn’t help with heads and arms. If you want make it useful it needs to compete with the Hel II Cannon if its just core damage or have a specific limb disabling effect.


I think they compared Piranha not to other ARs (there are none on the same tech level), but to other “advanced weaponry”: Acid Cannon, Stun Lance, Scion of Sharur etc. When compared to these Piranha AR does look strong :crazy_face:

I agree the nerf to the piranha is an awkward one, but I am of the oppinion that the whole assault rifle group could use some love. it doesn’t help that 30-40 armor is on almost every enemy you’ll face in the latter half of the game. this means that, for assault rifles to work, you need to strip the armor off the target first. this in turn means that assault rifles cannot function on their own without a means to overpower armor (either an absurd amount of +%dmg perks, or armor penetration)

now I feel it doesn’t take a genius to understand that in a game where there is a lot of armor that reduces damage by a flat count per attack, high damage per attack and armor penetrating weapons tend to rule.

about the virophage SR, do keep in mind it adds the virophage damage directly and instantly to target HP. this means that it hits for 170 damage per shot. with most smaller targets having close to 300 HP you are getting dangerously close to simply being able to 2-shot the enemy. and in my book the “dead” status condition trumps the “crippled” status. so I can’t agree that its weak, even though the virophage damage doesn’t reduce limb HP.


I don’t disagree with a word you said. My point about virophage is simply that you can two shot most of the non-large enemies with any of the sniper rifles, but what tends to happen is you have more enemies than guns, so you use quick aim to fire twice and disable priority dangers. Basically virophage ends up being best against the larger enemies when your just trying to drop health as quick as possible but I also use the Hell Cannon for that.

Its simple… Assault Rifle needs to get double damage, but half the burst number… if Ares does 60 damage with 3 round burst, it will be relevant for quite some time… Similarly AR-50 with 80 damage and 2 round burst… overall damage potential would not change, but armor would be a lot less of an issue on those Arthrons in late game…

In real world, Assault Rifles usually use 3 round burst, and there are some with just 2 round burst which is considered a lot more accurate than 3 round burst. So why not adopt this in Phoenix Point… plus it would allow distinguish AR from PDW, where PDW could get 5-6 round bursts but with less damage per shot than ARs…


Thats a valid point, but the problem is that for a late game heavy weapon the Jormungandr (acid cannon) only does 10 damage, even if it melts all the armor off it would take forever to kill anything with it. The Shock Lance and Scion of Sharur are melee and generally not competing for the same slot because my assault might carry a melee weapon but he is likely also carrying a ranged weapon for when he is not in melee and/or can’t risk getting in that close due to the number of ranged enemies that can retaliate with fire on their turn. In both cases they will never out number my tier 3 assault weapon because I am taking 3 assaults on any mission, 1-2 heavy units, and every assault will have a Tier 3 assault rifle or Iconoclast, then maybe a melee weapon if I can afford it and the unit has enough armor and health that I feel I can risk getting in that close at the risk of losing cover and exposing clear angles to unseen enemies. Even if they made the assaults use VDM Enforcers, that would still be true because they do more than 10 damage and they are not melee.

Ultimately even if you are correct, it doesn’t justify the nurf. It just adds to the confusion. If the other weapons are used because properties other damage then changing damage will not make them more common. You will still generally have less heavies than assaults, more ranged than melee, and the other assault rifles are Tier II and niche. Shotguns are less viable now that dash prevents them from firing twice so I expect more use of Piranha AR-51 after the patch then before it simple because shotgun assaults are a lot more likely to die to retaliation fire now.

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A lot better than what they did for sure.

It was a joke. Sarcasm. I was comparing to Piranha to the weapons which are currently useless or have worse stats than their earlier counterparts :upside_down_face:

Ah, I am easily lost on sarcasm in text missing its vocal inflection. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

A good suggestion, and I suggest you propose it on the Feedback Tool.

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Feedback Tool?!? How do you access feedback tool?

There is a post about it on the main page: Our New Player Feedback Tool is LIVE

I haven’t seen that, thought maybe that was in game feature like bug reporting. Thanks!

A link to it is pinned to the top of this forum.

I figured out. Thanks!