Scavenging site with the Pure , February 28th, please improve the Pure AI, they are a joke right now
This applies to all human size opponents.
The AI can only handle long range weapons well. I wonder why? It doesn’t take any effort!
If the pure heavy would get a Goliath or your super OP mount laser, things would be a little different. In fact, only the enemy sniper was dangerous, but you could turn it off from a decent distance.
Let’s be honest: which weapon would be 1:47 (without skill buffs) more effective on the spot? The whole thing can even be done for 0AP, crazy! For me it is always this combination of “effective” and “effortlessly” which seems absurd.
I fully agree with you, humans AI, Destiny III perfect accuracy, and you know, the Pure was using Goliath GL-2 in the past, now that was removed.
Advanced laser weapons (Gorgon PDW, Scorcher AT, Destiny III mounted weapon) all of them are OP in my opinion, but I don’t decide those things.
Somewhat I can agree, but I think the biggest problem are still the skills:
Gorgon PWD with 40 damage on 20 range on its own is just a bit stronger than the piercing Enforcer PDW with 20 damage, 20 piercing and 19 range and IMO it should be this way.
BUT all damage multipliers let the Gorgon PDW go too far ahead of the Enforcer, with Sneak Attack (+100%) and the PWD perk (+10%) it is 84 damage vs 42 damage and 20 piecing and when you then add MoD and the vivisection buffs the diffenrence is even bigger.
Scorcher AT, almost the same, it is stronger than the Rattlesnake AT, but not always and also not that much. 60 x 10 on 29 range vs 40 with 30 piercing x 8 on 25 range (against targets with 30 armour it is 300 vs 320 for the Rattlesnake AT!). Here I see the problem more with the multiple 1 AP usage by a technician, but for both ATs.
Destiny III, well, this is a one time use per turn and I would consider it somewhat OK when there wasn’t the 0AP shot with Boom Blast. It’s kind of weird that a Heavy with Archangel RL and Destiny III is the best sniper in the game, 3 most accurate shots in one turn with almost 100% hit guarantee.
Gorgon is 1000+ damage on the Scylla per turn(4 AP), using Marked for Death, plus vivisection, without perks
Scorcher AT plus Marked for Death 990 per burst
Destiny 270 damage on its own, not bad
I know all this and as I said, I can somewhat agree
But still, they are just a bit stronger then their predecessors and IMHO they should be. Just the skills that add so much damage on top …
Let’s assume we could nerf them, especially the Gorgon PDW and Scorcher AT (the Destiny is very special and has no direct predecessor), what would you do without making them weaker than their predecessors? Or would you also nerf these?
First of all, I never use Enforcer or Defender PDW, same for Watcher and Rattlesnake AT.
I keep my technicians at base until they get LV 4 or 5, I get Adv. laser weapons end of January, usually.
So I am a bit biased. But I would reduce base damage Scorcher AT, remote control only one activation per turn and technician, and less charges, that way tech needs to reload more often, right now I never have to
At the same time I would decrease that 50% from Marked for Death, it is too much.
Yes, but …
Tested it: I was able to beat the game on Legend with these weapons without using any multiplier you mentioned. It’s also worth mentioning that I don’t play any other games on the highest difficulty level other than XCOM2 and then only after 500+ h.
“It’s kind of weird” that the pure heavy class is most effective when it does NOT go within short distances. The whole strong armor is not necessary for me, because so far away from the action you will never be hit anyway, unless you fly blindly to a point. I already said it, but to be honest, the heavy with mount and Goliath + magic skill, ideally doesn’t need to move at all.
I actually started playing XCOM2 again, and I have to say: no matter how much the 2AP system, shot chance and above all the pod system bothers me, the skills of the classes just feel better, they are “harmonious”. For example, I can’t cripple everything and everyone on the entire map with the heavy + grenade launcher. This makes positional play enormously more important. I have action! I move and flank, destroy cover. I don’t have any situations where I activate the magic skills over and over again (Quick Aim for 0AP) or have the Boom Blast launcher as the better variant of stationary artillery. Turrets are additional soldiers, which would be okay if their punch wasn’t even stronger than firing a standard assault rifle from a “real soldier”. These are all “weird” things for me.
Sorry for off topic
Defender and Enforcer aren’t really bad, in fact I use the defender a lot until I get the Gorgon Eye A but not the Enforcer because it is mostly later avialable. The same for Watcher and Rattlesnake, the latter comes mostly after the Scorcher.
And in my opinion this is a problem that the advanced laser tech is too early accessible. IMO this should be only possible after the piercing tech (Edit: I mean the Advanced Technician Weapons) from NJ and not with the Technician right away.
Then it would be weaker then the Rattlesnake AT, maybe except against unarmoured targets, depending on how much the damage is reduced.
, this could be a way to go.
IMO yes, but good luck with the shitstorm afterwards
Then you can also beat it with the Enforcer PDW and Rattlesnake AT, as described above, both are not much weaker then the often OP called advanced laser tech weapons. Except the Destiny III, this is a really special case, but I assume you can also simply use the Thor RL, it is not much weaker, though it needs more inventory space for ammo.
To the OT rest, IMO it is mostly personal taste and I understand you somehow.
Nevertheless I also tried again XCom 2 / WotC half a year ago and cancelled the campaign because I simply didn’t like so many things there. I wondered, why the f**k I had played it for thousands of hours in the past before PP.
The problem is ER and accuracy, Laser is always better.
I would go with 50 damage and 8 burst keeping that ER, I think it is enough.
And still strong points for Scorcher, more HP, ER, ammo capacity and raw damage.
That way Rattlesnake would be an alternative, not just a deprecated tech
Not that much, PDW 20 vs 19, AT 29 vs 25
Then I would completely switch to the Rattlesnake AT with 40 damage and 30 piercing, the 4 lesser ER is not really worth to worry about.
Really HP, for this the Rattlesnake is cheaper
ER see above, the difference is hardly noticeable.
Ammo is 15 bursts vs 12 bursts, also not a thing to get worry about.
Raw damage is only useful when you always shred armour before, the Rattlesnake can simply fire almost always (I tried it and it was really good, in fact against late Arthrons it was very hard hitting and IMO better than a Scorcher with its current values).
And most overpowered. Don’t look at the damage, but at the possibility of shooting each opponent’s arm or head from the other side of the map, just like that. That is “the real OP about it”.
that is true, my playstyle includes shredding in the first place, that is why I pass on Rattlesnake
But right now there are not contest, Scorcher is the best
Exactly, and weapons too. If snipers are bothering your soldiers, just destroy their weapons, Thor or Ragnarok are destroying limbs, but many Pandorans after mid game have regeneration
OK, I give up, lets nerf the advanced laser weapons, I switch to the alternative until they also get nerfed
Honestly, without looking at the other things this will only shift the problem exactly to them.
Destiny III’s damage should be lowered, this is the only thing I’m really convinced with.
It is not to us, and so far no luck with devs.
But perfect accuracy(Destiny III) across the board is OP in my book. Same for Scorcher.
Again, with a Rattlesnake the difference is hardly noticeable.
And the Umbra is of course the best case you can have for the Scorcher because he has no armor.
I will build one and look that I can take two screenshots for each in a sitation at the same distance …
to be honest I restricted myself to one turret per mission, and one use of remote control per enemy.
But most of the time I don’t use them, just for the Scylla, or blocking one spawning zone in Citadel
The problem are not the weapons alone, that’s what I call the whole time, I’m pretty sure you will get almost the same result with a Thor RL. 3 nice cluster, excellent for it, maybe even over in 2 turns.
And now to the Screenshots to compare Rattlesnake and Scorcher.
First turn, the Technician has 2 AP left after moving closer. Here I saved and then he throws first the Scorcher at this position and control it afterwards. After reloading the save he throws the Rattlesnake at the same position and also control it.
Scorcher aim, full zoom:
Rattlesnake aim, also full zoom:
Pretty close, isn’t it?
Just to tell also the end of this mission:
- The Scorcher got killed by an Arthron Umbra after he killed the host
- The Rattlesnake killed 3 additional foes in the whole mission, not really much worse than a Scorcher.
- My Sniper / Infiltrator was able to paralyse 2 Trirons and one Arthron, killed another 3 Arthrons and a Triton, but also got 2 head shots from Tritons (good to have the Technician in this really small team).
- The Armadillo serves as a bullet sponge and has received multiple hits, but for that it’s on this team.
- The Technician heals the Sniper 3 times, repairs the Armadillo 2 times and otherwise collected resources (scavenging site), took control over the Rattlesnake from time to time (not more than once per turn)
- Anything collected that was in the crates + some weapons from the dead pandorans.
- It was challenging, tense and funny. This small team has proven that it can do such scavenging missions, I like it.
- This report will be copied or linked to my little report thread