Phoenix Point declining player-base

I would say your only chance is that you had a national law covering speciffic software customer rights. Steam operating in your country would be bound by those laws.

But the EU laws and regulations do not cover you. And the steam and epic policies certainly do not cover you either.

Also, if the law exists but the customer has the burden of proof to show the product or service is either: Not fit for purpose, not as described, or not of satisfactory quality. I think you have also no much of a hope.

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Sorry, didn’t mean to offend you. Why do you quote EU law, then? Serbia is not part of EU and this law doesn’t apply to you.

If SG was in Serbia you would be right.
Since it is in Bulgaria, EU laws apply. Seen?

No you bought the product in Serbia, from an steam shop operating in serbia. The serbian laws apply to you. The laws of the country of the manufacturer would not. The EU laws also do not protect you.

The important part here is that you bought the product not in the UE, from a shop not in the UE, from a company not residing in the UE. Even if it was manufactured in the UE. These customer laws protect customers and affect mainly sellers. Not manufacturers. Also EU general consumer protection laws do not apply to software products anyway.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund .

  • Software is not considered a good by EU laws.
  • The seller is steam, not SG.
  • You did not buy the software in the EU. But in a steam shop likely operating from Serbia. If Steam does not operate in Serbia, you would be protected only by the laws of the country the shop was operating from…

You need to ask refund from steam, if steam refuses you should go to a Customer Protection Agency if your country has one.

You could try to contact SG, as manufacturers, if they have customer services. But I don’t think you can do anything else about it. Unless you can convince them to act in god faith, or unless they offer you an extended manufacturer guarantee (which they won’t).

You also can ask for help from the European Consumer Centers Network, even if they will not assist you, they will explain you how to proceed. You can also look for the protection of international customer protection networks such as:

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Cut scenes appears to be an issue with the Unity Engine. The only sin by SG is using that engine.


It is sin, if its causes problems to all players - why not reverting to older but anim functional?. Tell it to judge - you HAVE to use latest sw, even it causes bugs. You could revert a bit back.
Plus if you look to the thread Cutscenes haven't worked as of Oryx V1.10.1 I openly asked is it “Unity” - now I see devs knew it is and dont give a f … about players

It looks like competitors want to lower the rating of the game through money back spam.

No, I am no studio. Players want devs either to correct bugs (which they delay endlessly) or refund until that time. Is that “so evil”?

People, can you please agree to disagree and then SHUT UP!

I used to come onto this forum to discuss aspects of the game - what’s working, what’s not working, what combos people thought were too OP/too weak, and once I’d got a good idea of the general feeling I’d construct an argument to try and persuade the devs to make whatever changes were needed.

It used to be fun. People would passionately disagree, but we all understood that this was a game and we could all have strongly differing opinions without falling out with one another.

I don’t bother any more, bc all these threads are full of is people calling each other names and then arguing with one another over pedantic little points.

And if they’re not, it takes about 2.5 posts before someone seems to think that just because you disagree with them about the way A GAME works, that gives them the right to attack you personally for having a different opinion to them.

It’s pathetic and I’ve had enough.

Either talk about the game like civil human beings or go somewhere else (I wanted to put that in much stronger language, but realised I’d be degenerating to your level if I did.)

And before any of you bother to post a 3-page essay on why my opinion is elitist/racist/gamesist/ not worth the pixels it is written in, save your pixellated breath cos I’ve muted this topic and moved on to somewhere that actually does talk about the game in a civilised fashion rather than using it to attack people for no good reason other than that they think differently to you .


Fully agreed and approved. Please delete all personal attacks and warn users to self-restrain including me, if I behave so. (this also complies with my request for moderation). Thanks.

Why did you add this? This is higher ground dilemma. You don’t want to “lower” your level but you need to tell that other are at low level already. You try to stop yourself but still the urge is so strong. So in the end, you add that.

So you are telling people that their level is low and you are higher at least you want to be seen that you are higher.

This is a personal attack. And you did it. And you came to same level, as you can’t stop to tell this anyway.

Talk civil way as you described without (…) and let people judge your level then. You are just mad as people here with your shut up reply, you are not different.

Phoenix Point declining player-base

  • Lack of communication between SG and community esp. ‘canny roadmap’ task work in progress.
  • Lack of transparency between SG and community esp. ‘canny roadmap’ task work in progress.
  • SG add more barriers between the community. In this case CC obviously is not from community to community, it is just another tool of SG to soften whatever the ideas are. I couldn’t tell how the SG pipeline is between CC and the community, but I can see a glimpse of how this ‘pipeline’ works towards the community.
  • which lead to another lack of communication and transparency between CC and community.
  • Lack of resources to fix and solve PP base game.
  • which may lead to a lack of improvement-development to show.
  • PP not delivered as the backers-customer expected.

All of this is based on my own observation around SG forums and my own assumption for the references. I’m just a simple guy so SG prove and show me that you’re STILL worth fighting for!


Real spot on and summary for me, thanks!

I would add unreasonable censorship of criticism, as in my case
*which constitutes dissatisfied customer discrimination and giving false support solutions. A small fix might be a win, but too little, too late.

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You haven’t been censored. :stuck_out_tongue: You have been told that forum isn’t a refund tool. :stuck_out_tongue:


There are about 20 active users on this forum, and occasionally new players who wonder in here seeking help.

What did we ever do to you to deserve this?


Lol, I don’t work at or for SG in any way, shape or form.

I help with the wiki and I’m involved with the community for fun. Speaking of which, it’s not like there is a lack of hobbies or videogames out there to be wasting time on something you hate and wish you never had bought.

What I’m saying is that your behavior, using a community forum like if it was a customer service point only harms the community. Well, also possibly the moderators who have to do something about it.


(Silently kicking me from CC without any pm or something may trigger something bad… not because I am out of CC but how they kick me is some non-civil move from SG… tbh I was holding things when I was at CC as I was still a part of something. Now they just cut me lose.)

As CC, you should just retire together to protest SG’s ignorance of community and council all together. As all you know as CC members, SG (if) cares only bigger numbers, not few testers. We all know SG start to ignore everything you say since LotA development. SG needs you only for testing purposes now. They just lie to you everytime with “we will start to listen your ideas at next time!” and you buy that.


Whaaaat? You left CC, remember? Posted a nice farewell message and all, wishing the best to the company and to the game, saying you were taking a break from Phoenix Point?

And what did you do next? Posted a neg review of FS the minute it came out. Without actually playing the beta, cause you said you didn’t like the mechanics, so why bother.

And then came here, and continued posting manure, without giving any consideration to the fact that what is said in CC is said in confidence.

This is civilized behavior?

Don’t bother replying, goodbye.


I will bother.

So, I don’t wanna tell everything but you want force my hands.

There are at least 2 CC members who planned to make videos/topics to tell what is inside FS as it’s quality and content is less then expected and you (CC members) want to inform players what they will get with this DLC right after release.

You did not even reply anything. I just made that move for you.

So what did SG to your great work about skills? Didn’t SG totally ignore it and made just something totally different and way little? Didn’t SG promise to get it considered when you all are screwing SG all together and nearly leave CC? Eric just jumped and told you to not go and give you that semi-promise.

I left discord chat. There are tons of CC guys who does not talk for months even they are in CC…

I honestly told what FS has. Did I lie anyone? Did I say something wrong at that steam topic? If there is something wrong, why did I not reply that? Because everything is true.

I don’t need to be civil for liars… Telling truth is a civil thing for me. Yes I am bold, because I don’t like to be lied. If you like that, well ok…

So again as I say some truth, I became the bad guy… O.o


This thread derailed into off-topic and personal animosities so I am closing it.