Phoenix Point declining player-base

Oh, I actually dont know. I just searched about it, and seems to be agreed upon everywhere that software is not protected.

At the time the French legislator implemented the concept of hidden defects into law they did not consider the case of the licensing of intangible goods. The Civil Code only envisions the application of the warranty in sales (Articles 1641 et seq.) and lease/rental agreements (Articles 1721 et seq.). From there the doctrine tends to exclude computer programs from the benefit of the warranty on the ground that software isn’t a good and that the Civil Code really only applies the aforementioned articles in respect of tangible goods. This is particularly true when there is no transfer of ownership in the software and only a remote access to a software platform is granted for purposes of receiving online services, as is the case for Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) types of engagements, without an actual download of the code.

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I have checked at the source and @rasvoja is screwed. :stuck_out_tongue:

  1. For the purposes of this Directive:
    (a) consumer: shall mean any natural person who, in the
    contracts covered by this Directive, is acting for purposes
    which are not related to his trade, business or profession;
    (b) consumer goods: shall mean any tangible movable item, with
    the exception of:
    — goods sold by way of execution or otherwise by
    authority of law,
    — water and gas where they are not put up for sale in a
    limited volume or set quantity,
    — electricity;


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Oh, you can tell the whatever you want (and they may flag you, or just ignore :stuck_out_tongue:). I just don’t think doing it makes them in any way obliged to obey, so why bother.

I don’t always agree with the way how drages describe things, but I do see why he is upset and why he says what he says. Something “snaped” in me about 3 days ago and I turned into solipsistic hivemind, and nothing actually matters anymore (something like rasvoja, but without eating shrooms of unknown origin).

You are not wrong, but it was never about obeying.

Have we abandoned even the posibility of convincing? of giving compeling arguments? of just being able to say, “look, maybe you should consider you are wrong” or “maybe you are right, I think I was wrong”.

Whats the point of anything all we can do is talk pass each other as if we are just talking alone?. If noone ever reflects on any opinion? Are we doomed to just not listen to anyone anymore? To me that is how one ends feeling like a solipsistic hivemind, where nothing actually matters anymore.

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Not everything can be talked through by applying logic. :stuck_out_tongue: When people are upset they need empathy, not logic. :man_shrugging: (Fuck, that was deep :P)

It isn’t that bad, you should just at least give it a try. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Something like


As long as you prove product is defective, I am right. And it’s not only coal and gas.

Repair or replacement
The retailer has one opportunity to repair or replace any goods or digital content that are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described, before you can claim a refund.

You can choose whether you want the goods to be repaired or replaced, but the retailer can refuse if they can show that your choice is disproportionately expensive compared with the alternative.

You’re entitled to a full or partial refund instead of a repair or replacement if any of the following are true:

The cost of the repair or replacement is disproportionate to the value of the digital content
Repair or replacement is impossible
Repair or replacement would be significantly inconvenient
Repair would take unreasonably long
Repair has been unsuccessful.
If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you can then claim a refund or a price reduction if you wish to keep the product.

Yeaaah, about that. :stuck_out_tongue: I think you should rethink the whole refund initiative…

Here’s the source of an EU directive (the one about 2-years guarantee) you are talking about. It’s in Bulgarian as well:

Check the “Член 1 (2.б)”:

потребителски стоки означава всяка движима материална вещ

I am pretty sure the 2-year guarantee does not apply to digital video games.


Most of the time when someone is upset what that person wants is validation. But if you want to be able to change someones mind, that requires logic. Granted it requires empathy as well. But that my species is far less skilled with. Anyhow, we sometimes just plant a seed, and sometimes at an unexpected later time some people actually reflects on private. And if that does not work, well, there are other planets.

Nonesense, no hivemind, drones shall be supressed, drones have no mind, there is only the will of the queen!.

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See repair and replace rights.

I am arguing product is defective beyond repair, which is not even planned (,as known to end user) or FUBAR

Yes, but when the product is an untangible software. Those laws do not apply. Software is not considered goods but more like a service. So no replace and repair.

Even countries with special protection such as the UK, where they have the Consumer Right Acts, the software laws are fairly mild.

Also it is not that you are wrong, it is how the law is applied in practise. There have been some cases of a game so polemic the company agreed upon refunds for every customer beyond what the law said. But those cases usually required tens of thousands of angry customers.

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Read the EU directive, not a website.

But the 2-year guarantee does not apply to software. It appies to “потребителски стоки” and “потребителски стоки означава всяка движима материална вещ”. I am sure that “електронните игри не са движими материални блага” (this one is my Google Translate attempt to communicate with you).

I am no Bulgarian or Russian, but a Serb

Право на повраћај новца у случају не функционалног производа или услуге нема временско ограничење

I would say your only chance is that you had a national law covering speciffic software customer rights. Steam operating in your country would be bound by those laws.

But the EU laws and regulations do not cover you. And the steam and epic policies certainly do not cover you either.

Also, if the law exists but the customer has the burden of proof to show the product or service is either: Not fit for purpose, not as described, or not of satisfactory quality. I think you have also no much of a hope.

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Sorry, didn’t mean to offend you. Why do you quote EU law, then? Serbia is not part of EU and this law doesn’t apply to you.

If SG was in Serbia you would be right.
Since it is in Bulgaria, EU laws apply. Seen?

No you bought the product in Serbia, from an steam shop operating in serbia. The serbian laws apply to you. The laws of the country of the manufacturer would not. The EU laws also do not protect you.

The important part here is that you bought the product not in the UE, from a shop not in the UE, from a company not residing in the UE. Even if it was manufactured in the UE. These customer laws protect customers and affect mainly sellers. Not manufacturers. Also EU general consumer protection laws do not apply to software products anyway.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund .

  • Software is not considered a good by EU laws.
  • The seller is steam, not SG.
  • You did not buy the software in the EU. But in a steam shop likely operating from Serbia. If Steam does not operate in Serbia, you would be protected only by the laws of the country the shop was operating from…

You need to ask refund from steam, if steam refuses you should go to a Customer Protection Agency if your country has one.

You could try to contact SG, as manufacturers, if they have customer services. But I don’t think you can do anything else about it. Unless you can convince them to act in god faith, or unless they offer you an extended manufacturer guarantee (which they won’t).

You also can ask for help from the European Consumer Centers Network, even if they will not assist you, they will explain you how to proceed. You can also look for the protection of international customer protection networks such as:

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Cut scenes appears to be an issue with the Unity Engine. The only sin by SG is using that engine.


It is sin, if its causes problems to all players - why not reverting to older but anim functional?. Tell it to judge - you HAVE to use latest sw, even it causes bugs. You could revert a bit back.
Plus if you look to the thread Cutscenes haven't worked as of Oryx V1.10.1 I openly asked is it “Unity” - now I see devs knew it is and dont give a f … about players

It looks like competitors want to lower the rating of the game through money back spam.

No, I am no studio. Players want devs either to correct bugs (which they delay endlessly) or refund until that time. Is that “so evil”?