Looks as though I will be waiting on the steam release

[VOLAND]

I read Lovecraft quite some time ago and I can’t claim to have a perfect memory of it… And then I played the Fantasy Flight boardgames, which probably took some (necessary) license with the content, so I might well be mixing things up even more…

However, I recall there were several themes in Lovecraft.

One was indeed the Ancients, as in the Mountains of Madness, that were huge. But then there were the contemporary worshippers of the Ancients that sometimes accomplished some sort of transformation to resemble them (Shadows over Innsmouth? ) and they would be more or less humanoid.

Then, IIRC, there was a story where Dagon got rammed by a ship [and no, I’m not referring to the Call of Chtulu FPS where the main character shoots him with rockets or something…]

In any case, Phoenix Point is not set in the Lovecraft universe, rather a universe where his life’s work has a terrifying explanation… Which is, by the way, genuine Lovecraft… this mixing of real and fictitious elements until the reader is not sure which ones are which.

And yes, there are problems with maintaining the Lovecraftian horror theme with the currently existing balance issues…

[CardboardMike]

Imagine this game with the psychology mechanic like Darkest Dungeon, perhaps giving your squad mates semi-permanent traits every time WP hit 0. Would definitely be an interesting twist on the XCOM formula and may balance out the power fantasy elements.

[VOLAND]

I have not played Darkest Dungeon, but the Fantasy Flight games have a sanity mechanic that works like that, with characters acquiring negative traits due to loss of sanity.

There are a few things to consider:

1. What would be the negative traits?

2. How would they be acquired?

3. How could they be removed?

IMO,

1. It shouldn’t be anything that deprives player of agency over character. Stuff like chance to go maniac and start shooting friendlies, for example, I would avoid. In fact, I would avoid there being a RNG element at all.

It makes sense that it be incremental, so if the condition isn’t cured, next time a worse condition will take hold and so and so forth.

2. and 3) depend on each other - if it’s something easily gained it should be easily removed. At the same time, you don’t want something that is acquired too easily as it could become tedious.

[lordflin1]

Lovecraft’s creations were extra dimensional beings of near infinite intelligence… they were so far beyond anything experienced in our own dimension that Lovecraft often left their description to the readers imagination having fueled their imaginings with his excellent dark prose… excellent prose that is when he wasn’t just adding language to the story to up his pay (he got paid by the word).

Could their be some such entity behind the viral mutation… sure… but the game has provided absolutely zero substrate for such a direction…

If this was a Lovecraft story we would have, at the very least, agents responsible for arcane research, we would have a horror element running in the background, and research into the nature and character of our ancient enemy would be instrumental in its destruction… which in general would be banishment back to its original realm.

This story is not Lovecraft in the slightest degree despite tossing in the occasional name starting with a Y…

To be honest, I don’t care. It is not relevant to the game’s fundamental issues. That said, the game does need a unifying theme to pull it together… but its roots appear to be more sci-fi, and I suspect any such unifying theme will hail from that field rather than the horror genre…

[lordflin1]

I watched the clip… hard to really get at the underpinnings of a game system by watching someone else play.

That said… the game play appears a great deal smoother than PP. The graphics appear to have greater utility giving the player more tactical information with less effort. I am guessing the game also does not make the PP mistake of killing off your squad… this is a real no no in a squad level game, as bonding with one’s squaddies is what it is all about. Two years in the US army during the last two years of the Nam war and I can attest to the camaraderie experienced in a military squad… btw, don’t want to mislead here, I was sent to Germany rather than Nam for which I was very grateful.

Gears seems to allow a great deal of activity during any given turn, and in this way it is similar to PP. Whether it experiences similar exploits is difficult to know as the presenter appeared to be only slightly familiar with the game… but within the scope of the presentation exploits did not appear to be an issue.

From what I could gather there was no strategic layer to the game. Players appear to upgrade equipment from a menu between missions before being assigned a new mission. Perhaps some later iteration of the game will provide a strategic layer.

It looks like a game I will want to take a closer look at. It will have to be at the end of summer I am afraid. I own and operate a farm and this is a very busy time of year. Just yesterday I awoke to a house that had no water. Given that I am inundated with water everywhere I go on the farm (we are still getting rain on a regular basis despite the fact we are almost into July) this was a bit more irony than I was prepared for. And trying to hunt down an irrigation leak when you are living on acreage can be a fun time to say the least. Fortunately I caught a break and immediately found the leak. That said, if you ever get a chance to live on a farm, it is an education you cannot get anywhere else. I would place it third on my list of life’s greatest hits after raising children, and pursuing a career in the sciences…

But I am curious, having watched the clip… what is your take? It appears there is a good deal of tactical flexibility to the game… how do you think it compares?

[MichaelIgnotus]

Part of the original pitch for PP hinted that squaddies could be infected by the Pandoravirus if they got wounded. That was very strongly backed up by the Fort Freiheit fiction that accompanied BB1 & 2. But it seems to have hit the cutting room floor along with a bunch of other stuff.

Personally, I would find it very interesting if getting infected by Viral damage gradually ate away at a Squaddie’s Will until (s)he mutated into an Arthron, with the primary weapon permanently bound into the weapon hand.

But as you say, there would have to be Research that provided a cure and allowed you to put them in the Sick Bay for a while to stop the transformation.

[MichaelIgnotus]

@lordflin1

If this was a Lovecraft story we would have, at the very least, agents responsible for arcane research, we would have a horror element running in the background, and research into the nature and character of our ancient enemy would be instrumental in its destruction… which in general would be banishment back to its original realm.

But as Voland pointed out above, this isn’t the Lovecraftian mythos. This is a sci-fi story that provides a science-fictional rationale for the stories behind the Lovecraftian mythos. So it doesn’t have to have real Elder Gods etc.

I agree that the horror theme is not particularly well realised at the moment, and to me that’s a big shame; but it’s definitely based on Lovecraft’s mythology - it’s just deliberately NOT truly Lovecraftian.

[VOLAND]

@lordflin1

Lovecraft’s creations were extra dimensional beings of near infinite intelligence… they were so far beyond anything experienced in our own dimension that Lovecraft often left their description to the readers imagination having fueled their imaginings with his excellent dark prose…

Well, there was that hanky-panky between the villagers of Innsmouth and the Deep Ones.

And it’s not hard to see that the Pandoravirus is a variation on this theme to give it a scientific, rather than an esoteric explanation.

@lordflin1

Could their be some such entity behind the viral mutation… sure… but the game has provided absolutely zero substrate for such a direction…

You really think so? Not only is it part of the main story, but there are tidbits of it in the random text adventures on the geoscape… May I assume you didn’t finish the game?

@lordflin1

I am guessing the game also does not make the PP mistake of killing off your squad… this is a real no no in a squad level game, as bonding with one’s squaddies is what it is all about.

To paraphrase Sol Stein, readers love in fiction what they hate in real life. To quote myself from a post yesterday on a different thread:

@VOLAND

That’s the whole point - I care, but I can’t control who lives and who dies.

That’s the story. It’s not masochism, it’s drama.

That’s what the whole genre is about, imo. You have a strategic objective you have to achieve through a long series of short tactical engagements. No way all your troops are going to pull through, many of them will die, some in meaningful sacrifice, others due to your mistakes, because you took a gamble that didn’t pay off, etc. The player makes the characters come alive, forms an emotional bond with them and suffers when they die. That’s XCOM, X-Com, Phoenix Point. That’s the damn experience I’m signing up for when playing a game like this!!

[noStas]

@lordflin1

But I am curious, having watched the clip… what is your take? It appears there is a good deal of tactical flexibility to the game… how do you think it compares?

From the point of view of the player / viewer who relies on internal perception.
If there were no PP, then the GT would be a breakthrough and a smooth continuation like the AAA-title FiraXCom2013.
81 / 7.7 - evaluation of the game without Geoscape and the uncomfortable / boring management of the “base” (XCOM2WotC with Moding !! - 88 / 7.8). Tactics on high difficulties show too many flaws.
Gears Tactics - Metacritic

New and beautiful system of movement.
Perhaps a copy or joint development with Snapshot:

• burst firing system - interacts with the environment in front, firing acts on friends and foes (most likely RNG with 3-4 interaction points)
• There are analogues of many skills (Hevys rage burst), “Assaults rapid clearance” in the main mechanics
  …
  Great game for Fan Gears, Beginner and TBS Veteran. I, as a “hard style” spectator, lack a smooth game with high difficulties or/and Modding.

PS

copy or joint development with Snapshot

So... Rage Burst can no longer cover multiple targets - #61 by noStas

Corruption 2029 - Gameplay Video 12 февр. 2020 г. https://youtu.be/ETmFxCmr38o?t=536

DLC(cyborg mod on Mutant EZ) - Feb 17 vs DLC(B&T) - Mar 4

Repulse Design Cyborgs at DLC

[Shrike]

As someone who playtested it’s hardly surprising that the game came out broken, deadlines were constantly put back, the road map abandoned and when we were finally given, after nagging and constant controversy about the epic thing, an underwhelming beta it appears that plans on future development of the game through dlc were worked on before even seeing how the game was received.

I would disagree that there is no lovecraftian theme to the game. While I will admit to not having finished a game yet, the enemies are not your traditional aliens they have a nautical and presumably transdimensional flavour and look to them.

Also the game is an xcom inspired turn based shooter you can hardly expect the atmosphere to have same effect as if it were a first person adventure or something.

I actually like the, lore, story etc… So far… but it seems (and this is the reason why I am yet to finish a game) to lack soul and atmosphere . Something which the the first simple couple of Alphas had in bucket loads despite the minimal content they contained.

Presumably the email I have received suggesting the team is working on big changes means that they are actually working on a real reset.

However maybe this time the development team should take proper use of the player base in the form of betas which they almost completely abandoned for the kickstarter development process which was frankly disastrous.

Surely using people to point out bugs, for free, before patching the game is logical and would provide less irritation to people already accustomed to too many bugs and problems?

Also I hope that the development team is listening to suggestions through this thing they have admirably created, as obviously opinions are subjective but if
many people have the same idea or problem then theoretically maybe they have a point.

My 2 cents.

Scrap the base building entirely and rebuild it with something that has actual graphics not something that could be designed on mspaint in an afternoon and some kind of way of showing that it is related to a modern video game.

To say that it takes away the sense of immersion is an understatement.

Good to see the developers are pumping out things regularly.

Still checking in once a month.

[Lunazathoth]

@VOLAND

Then, IIRC, there was a story where Dagon got rammed by a ship

Minor spoilers for 100 year old fiction below:

Summary

That was Cthulhu, in ‘Call of Cthulhu’

Dagon’s actual appearance is ambiguous in Lovecraft’s original works. In ‘Dagon’ the creature that the narrator sees might be Dagon but it may just be a Deep One.

Re: the actual discussion though, I agree that Lovecraftian themes are present, but a Lovecraftian atmosphere is all but completely absent.

[VOLAND]

Right!

I told you my memory couldn’t be trusted

[lordflin1]

Voland… either you appear somehow incapable of understanding the points I have made regarding the game becoming easier or more difficult depending on player accomplishment ( ie the player gets a participation trophy at the end of the game rather than an actual victory) or you are deliberately ignoring those points. Either way, if a participation trophy is what you desire great… doesn’t work for me. We obviously want something very different from our gaming.

In so much as my original comment concerning the connection back to Lovecraft, I see little point in answering said arguments. I have already apologized for the post as I have said it served as little more than a distraction from my main points. Yes… it is entirely possible for any story to take a Lovecraftian direction… even a walk to the local grocery store could take on such a theme. Let us agree that you see Lovecraft in the game and I do not and leave it at that shall we…

The fact, Voland, that you insist on having the last word whenever anyone posts here may seem like your job description, in your mind, but it comes across as condescending. You do not know more about games or gaming than the rest of us, and you might want to take the time to consider that.

You can start with this post… try resisting the urge to respond to it and lets leave the debate in the agree to disagree category…

Addendum:

Feedback concerning dev thoughts and direction is great… and one can appreciate you bringing said input into a discussion… but your constant opinion about everyone else’s opinion is irksome to say the least…

[VOLAND]

?!

I have no idea where this is coming from, particularly as in this case you chose to engage me - I was answering someone else’s comment. You chose to respond to my comment and I replied.

Goodbye.

[lordflin1]

Wow… ok… well you included a number of my quotes in your posts… who was I to know that your followup comments to my quotes were not directed at me or the quotes themselves, it seems, and that any possible connection back to those quotes was coincidental. It certainly appeared that you were directing your comments to me… I apologize if I simply misunderstood your arcane style of commuinication…

Are you kidding me???

As to my post, I simply followed up your last comment… I assumed you could make the connection back to our interaction on this thread… especially as it was my original thread. I had also hoped that you might consider your disrespectful handling of many others on this site, as your never ending opinions about others opinions is obnoxious, and, as I pointed out above, condescending.

You can stop with your silly obfuscation and take these words to heart, or, and this is starting to appear more likely, you can continue to insult the people posting on this board who also love this game and perhaps have a vision that differs from yours… not including myself in this group btw as my feelings for PP are mixed to say the least.

Now… I will give you the last word…

[mcarver2000]

I feel that the ODI is very Lovecraft’ian. The eating away of the mind and soul with unexplained visions and dreams. But, it looks as if this is going to replaced with something else.

[lordflin1]

True… I will give the game a nod for that…

Frankly, if the game took a real turn in that direction it could probably work well… I find Lovecraft depressing and hopeless (as was the author himself)… but the prose is at times wonderful, and the lore richly engaging.

[VOLAND]

@lordflin1

Now… I will give you the last word…

I already did.

@VOLAND

Goodbye